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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Oh come on, DB -- you're telling me you don't ENJOY that kind of challenge?
    I relish it.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Im arguing with the liberal wind of TypoC.

    So basically I'm arguing with 85% of TypoC.
    The evasiveness

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Hey, I only voted Democrat because they are, IMO, marginally better than Republicans. If there was a viable Peace and Freedom Party candidate, I would have voted for her. If I had the means to get to a protest about the crap Obama is pulling on the civil rights front, I'd be there holding a sign.
    The article is about more than the tendency of the US gov't to be internationally heavy handed with regards to military involvement.

    It's really about the mindset that has allowed Democrats to ignore the abuses of civil liberties that they bemoaned under the Bush administration.

    For instance:

    Democratic Party benevolence

    The hubris and self-regard driving this is stunning – but also quite typical of Democratic thinking generally in the Obama era. The premise here is as self-evident as it is repellent:

    I'm a Good Democrat and a benevolent leader; therefore, no limits, oversight, checks and balances, legal or Constitutional constraints, transparency or due process are necessary for me to exercise even the most awesome powers, such as ordering people executed. Because of my inherent Goodness and proven progressive wisdom, I can be trusted to wield these unlimited powers unilaterally and in the dark.

    Things like checks, oversight and due process are desperately needed only for Republicans, because – unlike me – those people are malevolent and therefore might abuse these powers and thus shouldn't be trusted with absolute, unchecked authority. They – but not I – urgently need restrictions on their powers. This mentality is not only the animating belief of President Obama, but also the sizable portion of American Democrats which adores him.
    There are many reasons why so many self-identified progressives in the US have so radically changed their posture on these issues when Barack Obama replaced George W. Bush. Those include (a) the subordination of all ostensible beliefs to their hunger for partisan power; (b) they never actually believed these claimed principles in the first place but only advocated them for partisan opportunism, i.e., as a way to discredit the GOP President; and (c) they are now convinced that these abuses will only be used against Muslims and, consumed by self-interest, they concluded that these abuses are not worth caring about because it only affects Others (this is the non-Muslim privilege enjoyed by most US progressives, which shields them from ever being targeted, so they simply do not care; the more honest ones of this type even admit this motivation).

    But the primary reason for this fundamental change in posture is that they genuinely share the self-glorifying worldview driving Obama here. The core premise is that the political world is shaped by a clean battle of Good v. Evil. The side of Good is the Democratic Party; the side of Evil is the GOP. All political truths are ascertainable through this Manichean prism.


    This is the simplistic, self-flattering morality narrative that gets reinforced for them over and over as they sit for hours every day having their assumptions flattered and validated (and never questioned or challenged) by watching MSNBC, reading pro-Obama blogs that regularly churn out paeans to his greatness, and drinking up the hundreds of millions of dollars of expertly crafted election-year propaganda from the Party that peddles this Justice League cartoon.

    The result is that, for so many, it is genuinely inconceivable that a leader as noble, kind and wise as Barack Obama would abuse his assassination and detention powers. It isn't just rank partisan opportunism or privilege that leads them not to object to Obama's embrace of these radical powers and the dangerous theories that shield those powers from checks or scrutiny. It's that they sincerely admire him as a leader and a man so much that they believe in their heart (like Obama himself obviously believes) that due process, checks and transparency are not necessary when he wields these powers. Unlike when a GOP villain is empowered, Obama's Goodness and his wisdom are the only safeguards we need.
    Which in turn illustrates the exact kind of no win dichotomy I was complaining about when I wrote that its hard to gain traction with any argument when one's entire side is colored by such negative assumptions, and more distressingly, those assumptions are salient within the populace generally.

  4. #34
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    How do you like your blog, Magic?

  5. #35
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The article is about more than the tendency of the US gov't to be internationally heavy handed with regards to military involvement.

    It's really about the mindset that has allowed Democrats to ignore the abuses of civil liberties that they bemoaned under the Bush administration.

    For instance:
    I'm not reading all that. Clinton cut the living crap out of the safety net. Both parties have been representatives for corporate American and the establishment for God only knows how long. Democrats are marginally better in some areas. Republicans are marginally better in others. Neither of them have the best interest of the people I know and love at heart.

    But I agree that a Republican would never get by with the drone stuff, etc. Democrats would hold their feet to hot coals, while they are turning a blind eye to Obama's abuses. Republicans won't hold him accountable in a major way on it either, because it would interfere with their representation of him as a second Jimmy Carter or whatever they are selling this week on FOX.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #36
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    As always it's easy to assume the arguments of the opposing side as completely lacking in merit, when one assumes that they occupy the moral high ground.

    It's OK to legislate according to my whims because "I'm doing it for their own good."

    How is one to ever argue against that?

  7. #37
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    how did this thread go from a conversation about gender to discobiscuit complaining about how hard it is to be rich?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    how did this thread go from a conversation about gender to discobiscuit complaining about how hard it is to be rich anything except a liberal on TypoC?
    Fixed that for you.

    I'll leave it there.

    Magic probably wants me post in his thread about as much as I want to be in it.

  9. #39
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post


    how did this thread go from a conversation about gender to discobiscuit complaining about how hard it is to be rich?
    Ugh! I know. Maybe the mods could help out here. Sorry, MP!
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Fixed that for you.

    I'll leave it there.

    Magic probably wants me post in his thread about as much as I want to be in it.
    yes we're all part of the liberal conspiracy here, plotting against you.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    That may work for you irl, but you don't get to do that on the internet. You don't have any more power here than if you lived in a trailer and had a car on blocks and a couple of skinny dogs in your yard. Seriously, the rich-people pity solicitation and paternalistic correction is pretty silly in this setting. Any setting really, but I can't believe you're trying to play that here. You just look like an overprivileged, butt-hurt bully.
    exactly

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