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  1. #141
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Obviously there are limits. I wasn't referring to compromising truth or logic in a way that compromises fundamental values. I always naturally think in terms of truth and justice first. I've learned at times that I can be a bit pedantic about it and sometimes loyalty should be chosen. There's nothing pedantic about standing against racial hatred.
    Ah - a glimmer of hope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Yes, you clearly are more interested in just talking about what you're concerned about then actually engaging my arguments.
    When it comes to what I am concerned about, I am more interested in taking action IRL than having an online argument. Exactly what I do is not the point, though, so I have confined my remarks to hypotheticals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    The state is a piss-poor agent for bringing about societal change. Moreover, those in power can also manipulate the people's desire for the state to bring about societal change even to the point of offering the people a final solution to society's ills.
    The state has actually been a rather effective agent of societal change. Civil rights, women's rights (really a subset of the previous), workplace safety, and even the expansion of higher education through the GI Bill are just a few examples. You are right about manipulation, though. Final solutions work especially well if a suitable scapegoat population can be identified. All the more reason to exercise care in whom we elect to positions of power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I don't understand why you're personalizing everything. Surely, you can recognize that this happens to other people. I saw it all the time when I worked with the mentally disabled. Strangers would empathize and treat them with pity, but not recognize their inherent dignity or treat them with the respect that they received from those who knew them.
    I am doing the exact opposite, namely depersonalizing the idea of caring. Of course I can also care about people I do know personally, and I agree with the need to treat them with dignity and respect, but I do my best to treat everyone that way. Perhaps the people who do see others as victims should put less energy into their emotional response, and more into a practical response.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #142
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I remember when I was in conservative Christian college and was somewhat undecided on the issue of abortion. I debated with one friend who was "pro-life" and a second that was "pro-choice". They both took the position that "if you are not 100% for my position, you are 100% against it". I found that confusing, but a bit intriguing from an analytical perspective. I find a handful of posters here to take that same absolute position of "for or against", and it is really alienating for the *many* people who have some degree of undecidedness or being some where in the middle. People who do that on either side are increasing a sense of radicalism, but moreso are alienating everyone except those willing to take a radical stance. It's idiotic.
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  3. #143
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I remember when I was in conservative Christian college and was somewhat undecided on the issue of abortion. I debated with one friend who was "pro-life" and a second that was "pro-choice". They both took the position that "if you are not 100% for my position, you are 100% against it". I found that confusing, but a bit intriguing from an analytical perspective. I find a handful of posters here to take that same absolute position of "for or against", and it is really alienating for the *many* people who have some degree of undecidedness or being some where in the middle. People who do that on either side are increasing a sense of radicalism, but moreso are alienating everyone except those willing to take a radical stance. It's idiotic.
    Yes, I've experienced it with many people IRL and on here.

    It's frustrating when people talk past one another. Taking small points of the other and commenting on those phrases out of context, in emotionally-laden language.

  4. #144
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I remember when I was in conservative Christian college and was somewhat undecided on the issue of abortion. I debated with one friend who was "pro-life" and a second that was "pro-choice". They both took the position that "if you are not 100% for my position, you are 100% against it". I found that confusing, but a bit intriguing from an analytical perspective. I find a handful of posters here to take that same absolute position of "for or against", and it is really alienating for the *many* people who have some degree of undecidedness or being some where in the middle. People who do that on either side are increasing a sense of radicalism, but moreso are alienating everyone except those willing to take a radical stance. It's idiotic.
    IRL, there is an all-or-nothing aspect to it, a sense of biting off one's nose to spite one's face, that prevents the two "sides" from working together to address the issue in any productive way.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #145
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    I fail to see how DB getting worked up over some perceived slight against his mommy, which was not fairly based on anything that Pseudo (a poster not known for being very politically vocal) said, qualifies as either (1) a political argument or (2) a political argument in which his right-leaning politics are being dumped on. That much is clear from this thread, which I've just wasted time reading.

    There is a difference between feeling persecuted because you're outnumbered (which, however unproductive or blown out of proportion, is at least based on some reality) and actively finding reasons to feel persecuted. The latter always happens with DB. I'm not sure why, really, nor what is being hoped for by this approach (to sway people to your side out of pity? Or just receive the emotional gratification of a persecution fantasy in which the long suffering martyr is proven righteous in his beliefs in the end?) Either way it's annoying for anybody to do For ANY reason.
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  6. #146
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I remember when I was in conservative Christian college and was somewhat undecided on the issue of abortion. I debated with one friend who was "pro-life" and a second that was "pro-choice". They both took the position that "if you are not 100% for my position, you are 100% against it". I found that confusing, but a bit intriguing from an analytical perspective. I find a handful of posters here to take that same absolute position of "for or against", and it is really alienating for the *many* people who have some degree of undecidedness or being some where in the middle. People who do that on either side are increasing a sense of radicalism, but moreso are alienating everyone except those willing to take a radical stance. It's idiotic.
    I'm a bit more concerned that there are people who think that from a philosophical standpoint there can be compromises when it comes to personhood or privacy. Of course there can be political compromises, but nobody's making policy here.
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  7. #147
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I'm a bit more concerned that there are people who think that from a philosophical standpoint there can be compromises when it comes to personhood or privacy. Of course there can be political compromises, but nobody's making policy here.
    Why don't you think there can be compromises when two people disagree on the definition of "privacy" or "personhood"? Both of these are subjective human descriptions rather than objective binary states, so why is it impossible that people would have complex opinions about what those definitions should be?

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by compromise?
    -end of thread-

  8. #148
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    This post would be so good if it weren't for all the extremely strong opposing arguments that would absolutely eviscerate it.
    And as always, you mention that these arguments exist, but you don't make them materialize. We're all supposed to trust that you know them, in spite of having no record of any of them.

    I presume you also have 5 billion dollars of which you've never spent a fraction, and a twelve inch dick that no woman has ever seen.

    You could respond to this in a lot of ways, but if your response is that you don't care, let me just say that a more appropriate way of conveying that is to not respond.
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  9. #149
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I don't think compromise is really what is happening when people acknowledge the ambiguities of murky philosophical issues like personhood and privacy.

  10. #150
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I'm a bit more concerned that there are people who think that from a philosophical standpoint there can be compromises when it comes to personhood or privacy. Of course there can be political compromises, but nobody's making policy here.

    I think it's more evaluating certain things like life of the mother. Assuming you have two legitimate persons and the life of one endangers the life of the other, what is the right option?

    Or say evaluating the affect of having the victim of a rape having to carry her abusers child for nine months, especially incases where the victim is a minor.

    or Horrible cases on girls as young as ten getting pregnant.


    I know that these may not be the majority of cases but I think these few instances are what prevent me from being 100% philosophically opposed to abortion.

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