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  1. #41
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    Always take every risk, ever. Ever.

  2. #42
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    From my italian point of view, "Insecure" jobs in Germany can hardly be classified as such. As an engineer, even if it doesn't work out at all, you would at worst find some kind of mildly unfulfilling middle management position for 2200 euros-netto, which is okay to live off. I guess the biggest "problem" would be the need to potentially relocate.

    You are a mechanical engineer, right?
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  3. #43
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Ive never enjoyed any job ive ever had so dropping it wouldnt be a problem.

    In fact ive been in this exact scenario and I fucked off without a second glance. I hate the modern world of work. And im sure work was worse in the past, (as people keep mentioning to me), things were ALWAYS worse in the past, but the past isn't fucking coming back so why mention it? Am I supposed to feel sorry for people who no longer exist and wont ever again? What purpose does that serve?

    But I still get stick for it now.

    "Wah wah wah there are people who would have killed for that position." Really? Then let them fucking kill for it, dont come crying to me with this bullshit.

    The way I live my life i'll most likely end up living on the streets.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
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  4. #44
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    If you have the skill-set and references to get another good job if your dream job doesn't work out, then you should probably risk it-I don't know what the situation in Germany is, but in the United States its the low-skill shit jobs that liberal arts grad-school drop-outs like myself have to apply for that are hard to find, high-skill jobs (at least in some industries) are in high demand. In fact, you may even be able to get a job here if things don't work out.

    The only caveat is that I've heard Europe is technically in a recession now, and there's probably a good chance the United States will get into a double-dip recession itself shortly (all of which would probably hit the high-end job markets pretty hard)-its a much bigger risk right now, so you should take some time to figure out if the timing is right for you....but as a general rule, if you have the ambition, and the skills, then taking such a calculated risk is probably imperative to your good mental health.

  5. #45
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    From my italian point of view, "Insecure" jobs in Germany can hardly be classified as such. As an engineer, even if it doesn't work out at all, you would at worst find some kind of mildly unfulfilling middle management position for 2200 euros-netto, which is okay to live off. I guess the biggest "problem" would be the need to potentially relocate.

    You are a mechanical engineer, right?
    2200 euro is ok to live off ? Did you already become arrogant with ur TVL-13 job ? No seriously 2200 is actually very much, where I come from people have to live from 1200 euro netto. But you are right with ur assessment regarding engineering. Its quite insane what they earn in comparison to a Doctor for example.

    I basically need a job in which I can have fun and thats missing a lot in my current job. The wager is ok for my current education but it wont ever reach dimensions like 70 - 120k like for an engineer and knowing that takes away a lot of your motivation.
    My education at the moment: I have a 3 year education for an apprenticeship as an electrician and a Bachelor degree in mechanical engineering. I have been working for 1 year on my master in mechanical but switched to a master in electrical engineering, cause mechanical bored the shit out of me. I am good with everything regarding computers (CAD design, C-programming and embedded programming), I have a penchant for mechanics and harmonics analysis and I can spend hours developing electrical circuits. What I am not so good at is communications engineering, thermodynamics or complex software engineering. So my field would be automation and robotics / embedded systems design. I am currently working in politics and my job requires nearly only networking and organisational skills. The job is pretty chill and values all my ideas, some people already depend on my ideas, but I am missing the technical side a lot. I am working more like a civil engineer or statesperson. My technical intrest has majorly been focussed to hobbies for me the past years. The University stuff I have been doing with a parttime job and since last year I am doing it with a fulltime job, so for the last 4 years you can say, I've been working a 60+ week. It's a lot and I am very exhausted.

    Thats one of the reasons too why I am hesistant regarding change atm. Normally I am not like that, but having moved in a new appartment with my girl this year, having big plans regarding family and the workload have made me less haphazard. The other problem is that I know myself and that I am a workaholic and wont settle for a tranquil job in construction or development in the new company. The company in which I did my internship offered me a position in sales after I finished my project there. I didnt take it cause it would have meant to work a 90+ hours week with a lot of nights in hotels. And I hadnt had the energy at that time.

    Thanks to you all for your input so far. I have taken extended holidays over xmas so that I'll have some time to start some job applications and to see whats in there for me. I think its a matter of time for me and I have regained a lot of strength the last couple of months. I have already reached my old power again when more workload just made me even more ambitious. I'll definitly wait until after xmas and then see what the market has to offer for me.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #46
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    I'd try to find a way to combine the two or at least leave the oppertunity intact for me to return if possible. I'm not the type that jumps in headfirst and hope for the best. I'm pretty bad at hope in general. :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  7. #47
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    All you can do is weigh the pros/cons of your particular situation. A lot of one's decision should be weighted on whether they have financial responsibility to others (i.e. family). In the event that you have family members that are depending on you to bring home the bread, can you afford to jump ship to "follow your dreams" or is it too much of a risk/gamble?

    On the contrary, if you're a single person and you think you've got a pretty good plan to get you to where you want to be, I'd fully encourage going for it.

  8. #48
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    2200 euro is ok to live off ? Did you already become arrogant with ur TVL-13 job ? No seriously 2200 is actually very much, where I come from people have to live from 1200 euro netto. But you are right with ur assessment regarding engineering. Its quite insane what they earn in comparison to a Doctor for example.

    I basically need a job in which I can have fun and thats missing a lot in my current job. The wager is ok for my current education but it wont ever reach dimensions like 70 - 120k like for an engineer and knowing that takes away a lot of your motivation.
    My education at the moment: I have a 3 year education for an apprencticeship as an electrician and a Bachelor degree in mechanical engineering. I have been working for 1 year on my master in mechanical but switched to a master in electrical engineering, cause mechanical bored the shit out of me. I am good with everything regarding computers (CAD design, C-programming and embedded programming), I have a penchant for mechanics and harmonics analysis and I can spent hours developing electrical circuits. What I am not so good at is communications engineering, thermodynamics or complex software engineering. So my field would be automation and robotics / embedded systems design. I am currently working in politics and my job requires nearly only networking and organisational skills. The job is pretty chill and values all my ideas, some people already depend on my ideas, but I am missing the technical side a lot. I am working more like a civil engineer or statesperson. My technical intrest has majorly been focussed to hobbies for me the past years. The University stuff I have been doing with a parttime job and since last year I am doing it with a fulltime job, so for the last 4 years you can say, I've been working a 60+ week. It's a lot and I am very exhausted.

    Thats one of the reasons too why I am hesistant regarding change atm. Normally I am not like that, but having moved in a new appartment with my girl this year, having big plans regarding family and the workload have made me less haphazard. The other problem is that I know myself and that I am a workaholic and wont settle for a tranquil job in construction or development in the new company. The company in which I did my internship offered me a position in sales after I finished my project there. I didnt take it cause it would have meant to work a 90+ hours week with a lot of nights in hotels. And I hadnt had the energy at that time.

    Thanks to you all for your input so far. I have taken extended holidays over xmas so that I'll have some time to start some job applications and to see whats in there for me. I think its a matter of time for me and I have regained a lot of strength the last couple of months. I have already reached my old power again when more workload just made me even more ambitious. I'll definitly wait until after xmas and then see what the market has to offer for me.
    To what location does this refer to? According to this site:
    Median Monthly Disposable Salary (After Tax) 2,120.00 €
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
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    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  9. #49
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    To what location does this refer to? According to this site:
    The number is definitly right when you consider all of Germany. But the Ruhr Area where I am coming from is a very poor region. If I was to move to Bavaria or Swabia the wager would be way better. In eastern Germany it would be even worser than at my location.

    I have grown up in a very poor environment and dont have high-flung dreams like yachts or I dont even own a car at the moment. So 2200 € is in comparison with the people I call my friends around here very much. FDG is right tho that this is the median entry fee for an engineer for the first 2 years and then you get very bold raises and find yourself around 60 - 80 k quickly in a year. In my current job 60 k would be the end for me, as long as they wouldnt make me a civil servant. Then the netto income goes way up high.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #50
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    The number is definitly right when you consider all of Germany. But the Ruhr Area where I am coming from is a very poor region. If I was to move to Bavaria or Swabia the wager would be way better. In eastern Germany it would be even worser than at my location.

    I have grown up in a very poor environment and dont have high-flung dreams like yachts or I dont even own a car at the moment. So 2200 € is in comparison with the people I call my friends around here very much. FDG is right tho that this is the median entry fee for an engineer for the first 2 years and then you get very bold raises and find yourself around 60 - 80 k quickly in a year. In my current job 60 k would be the end for me, as long as they wouldnt make me a civil servant. Then the netto income goes way up high.
    I'm not familiar with neither the avg salary per industry nor with the politics/culture regarding career progression, so I'm not sure what you mean by 60k being the end and if it is related to your current job/what industry that is in/just a government paper work job. I do recall seeing the newsblast that Germany engineering shortage still being an issue, covered recently withing the scope of the current economic situation and Angela Merkle's visit here, and read online that there were laws changes dropping salaries paid to expats from 60k to 40k, [which seems counter-intuitive], while ppl's comments is that there is only shortage for low-pay ppl, but that there are plenty of skilled professionals that just command a higher salary, so it's all just some attempt to draw in cheap technical labor. Idk how much of this holds true, or how it aligns with the insider perspective you may have.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

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