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  1. #11
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Depends on the timeframe in which you want to breed, IMO. Parenting is way more demanding than I imagined it would be before I had kids and doing it while being worried about money all the time just makes it that much harder.

    But that's coming from half of a two IN couple with four kids and living in poverty more often than not. YMMV.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #12
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Depends on the timeframe in which you want to breed, IMO. Parenting is way more demanding than I imagined it would be before I had kids and doing it while being worried about money all the time just makes it that much harder.

    But that's coming from half of a two IN couple with four kids and living in poverty more often than not. YMMV.
    Thats another construction site atm, I rather not want to talk about. My gf and me have been trieing for a year now but its not working. I have done a test and am fit but the doctor said that since she has dropped the anti baby pill her body needs to realign a lot. Thats putting a lot of pressure on my girlfriend and she feels like only half a woman. Thats why I avoid big planning regarding that topic but rather let her settle with the situation and am hoping for destiny to help us every day. I even bought a second cat to distract her a bit but this topic is so big und unsettling that this plan didnt work.

    Regarding family planning tho the job change aint tooooo threatening. In Germany you get social help when you are jobless. That way I would earn enough to pay the rent. Only problem with the unsafe job would be of course time that would be better manageable in the safe job tho it wouldnt be more time. The safe job tho wouldnt pay enough so that my gf could quit her job and I could pay the family. I have gotten the impression she would like to do that for some time and use that time as well to find herself a new job. Cause she doesnt like to be a nurse as well.

    This is all a very complicated situation but not hopeless .
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #13
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Thats another construction site atm, I rather not want to talk about. My gf and me have been trieing for a year now but its not working. I have done a test and am fit but the doctor said that since she has dropped the anti baby bill her body needs to realign a lot. Thats putting a lot of pressure on my girlfriend and she feels like only half a woman. Thats why I avoid big planning regarding that topic but rather let her settle with the situation and am hoping for destiny to help us every day. I even bought a second cat to distract her a bit but this topic is so big und unsettling that this plan didnt work.

    Regarding family planning tho the job change aint tooooo threatening. In Germany you get social help when you are jobless. That way I would earn enough to pay the rent. Only problem would be of course time that would be better manageable in the safe job tho it wouldnt be more time. The safe job tho wouldnt pay enough so that my gf could quit her job and I could pay the family alone. I have gotten the impression she would like to do that for some time and use that time as well to find herself a new job. Cause she doesnt like to be a nurse as well.

    This is all a very complicated situation but not hopeless .
    I'm so jealous. I wish we had that here. It wouldn't do much for my husband and I at this point, but our kids would have a much better chance at happy lives and families.

    If you don't risk being on the streets and/or scraping coins together for food, I'd go for it. I wish my husband hadn't had to just find a job to support us. He might or might not have been happier and healthier in the end, but, for me, it would be worth that level of risk to try it.

    Not having the stress of a job you dislike can only help the baby making.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #14
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I'm so jealous. I wish we had that here. It wouldn't do much for my husband and I at this point, but our kids would have a much better chance at happy lives and families.

    If you don't risk being on the streets and/or scraping coins together for food, I'd go for it. I wish my husband hadn't had to just find a job to support us. He might or might not have been happier and healthier in the end, but, for me, it would be worth that level of risk to try it.

    Not having the stress of a job you dislike can only help the baby making.
    Thanks for your support and good luck to you and your husband. I know that my problem is prolly kind of a luxury problem, but I nevertheless need to ask sometimes and get help on those big decisions. Cause I am able to take very high risks at times without noticing that I am actually taking a risk and therefore I am heavily dependant on reflection of my plannings :/
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #15
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I wish my husband hadn't had to just find a job to support us. He might or might not have been happier and healthier in the end, but, for me, it would be worth that level of risk to try it.
    I certainly appreciate this feeling. My family had a lot of that growing up, so I can speak from the child's side... it's tough.

    However, there is one thing that makes it worthwhile: you are doing it for your family. Nothing could carry a larger reward. I also learned that it was a mistake to say it as "I wish he didn't have to" and moved to "Thank you and I appreciate that you do...".

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    You have the additional chance to become a civil servant one day and have your retirement secured. Nothing really big but totally safe. And your current job is one of the most wanted and therefore hardest to get for its security.
    If you wash away the intangibles, you are essentially saying: One job that pays (x) and is secure vs a job that pays (x) and is insecure. The clear answer is the job that is secure.

    Lets question the premises and evaluate on those grounds.

    1) How secure is a job in which you are not engaged? No matter how valuable you are, what you do, how long you have done it, if you aren't engaged, you are at a high risk of being redundant.

    2) How long do you last at a job in which you don't engage yourself? It's nice to talk about how secure a job is, and the position might be, but you yourself won't last if you aren't active in a role. It's not just burnout, it's just the nature of being inactive. You don't care about something you don't engage yourself in. Keep in mind that some of this is perspective; you are (directly/indirectly) choosing to not be engaged.

    3) Whats the value of (x)? Is it the potential for education, for changing jobs, for broader experience? Do you care about any of those enough to pursue them? If you aren't engaged at a job, advancement becomes unlikely within that area; OTOH, if you aren't motivated towards advancement (spending time with kids/newborns really affects this), then jumping to a new job could be worse: a lot of jobs expect advancement, etc.

    4) (x) also doesn't mention time benefits, like seniority and so forth, or work-life balance. More competitive companies are less forgiving than rigid-role companies in terms of flexibility (harder to replace, more competition driven). Those are way huger issues than you think when you are "single" and without kids.

    You have the undenied support of your gf which says: go for your dream. (but who is a bit crazy as well)
    I think it's wonderful to have a supportive spouse. However, you are both lying to yourselves. If you lose your job, have a newborn and are struggling, you are going to be under a lot of stress; stress, by definition, causes erratic behavior. Blame will be passed around. The "you" now would not: the "you" then will.

    That's not to say you should or shouldn't, but this is not as simple as "he/she said". It's "I've put this money aside in case anything happens", it's "I'll take over some chores at home"... it's a thousand things, before, during and after, that you need to commit and do to prevent serious harm to the relationship.

    It would be a mistake to not change just on this; what I recommend is that if you make a decision to change, make sure you take full responsibility and put aside what you think is prudent to avoid any major mishaps. Issues like this cascade throughout your life. Better to put firebreaks along the way.

  6. #16
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Yea I was raised by an istp Dad who always tried to teach me to do everything with a double safety net. And what did he ? He became an entrepreneur when he got his first kid (and is still one today). So, so much for his "safety".

    I guess the most important thing in this thing for me is to stop lieing to myself that its a good idea to stay in a job that sucks, just because its safe. The problem isnt even so much whether this is a good decision or a bad one for me, for me the thing is more that the sucky job will break me. This administration wants pawns not people who think freely or have own ideas. And that I am not cut out for. Its like a gay warrior in pink firing with glitter in the mists of battle.

    I think thats for me the real bottom line.

    But its insanely intresting how gravely people can have varieing opinions on this topic. I have had a lot of conversations lately. Its a deep look into a persons soul, into fears and hopes; dreams and directions. And I still havent made up my mind yet and am ready for a definite decision.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #17
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I certainly appreciate this feeling. My family had a lot of that growing up, so I can speak from the child's side... it's tough.

    However, there is one thing that makes it worthwhile: you are doing it for your family. Nothing could carry a larger reward. I also learned that it was a mistake to say it as "I wish he didn't have to" and moved to "Thank you and I appreciate that you do...".
    That's the crazy thing. According to all the career books we shouldn't be as happy as we are. I don't know any families or couples that are happier than we are. It's not really how we planned on things turning out, but we try to be thankful for what we have and be good to each other and that seems to work as well or better than all of the personal development and self-actualization in the world.

    All other things being equal, money kind of does buy happiness up to a point. Or rather, not having your basic needs regularly met will get you a whole lot of unhappiness. Not having to worry about whether you can afford to replace the jeans your kid outgrew without cutting into the grocery budget is a beautiful thing.

    You can have a happy life without loving your job, if it provides you a comfortable living. You can love your job and have an unhappy life regardless of what it pays. A lot is determined by your attitude, I think. I dunno.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #18
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    All other things being equal, money kind of does buy happiness up to a point. Or rather, not having your basic needs regularly met will get you a whole lot of unhappiness.
    I give this the highest praise I can: so true! Money doesn't make one happier, not really, it simply removes unhappiness. One of the worst things the English language did was make the concept of (un)happiness a single concept. Worse, with English culture came the pursuit of happiness, rather than living a satisfied and meaningful life.

    You can have a happy life without loving your job, if it provides you a comfortable living. You can love your job and have an unhappy life regardless of what it pays. A lot is determined by your attitude, I think. I dunno.
    Also very true. A large amount of happiness is biological; but you are not an E (if I were the type of person to stereotype based on type ), so more likely it has to do with the other major factors. Good community, good friends, closer family and the meaning that comes with them. It's surprising just how rare that is in Western culture.

    I know I don't have it, FWIW, so while I talk about it like I know, I only achieve fleeting moment of it in my own life. You are fortunate to have it, but neither will I say you are lucky; I know it comes from living a certain way.

  9. #19
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I recently quit a job that I was rather good at in order to do what I want to do instead, even though it means going back to school for a while. the boyfriend was quite supportive of this decision because he'd rather I be happy and he makes enough himself to support both of us

    I'd rather go through a short time of instability and end up somewhere that leaves me mentally stimulated AND feeling like my job is worthwhile than just keep going through the motions

    it's all up to the person making the decision though
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  10. #20
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    it's all up to the person making the decision though
    Yes ! I have basically for the last 28 years seen nothing but schools from the inside in my life. And my life was always like a soap opera you recorded on TV with the intention to watch it tomorrow. So my life went by and I didnt notice it. Now for the first time I am really in the midst of it. Its not like I had rich parents who spared me to earn money, on the contrary I in University times was just really really frugal. And on top of that studieing here doesnt cost you anything like in the States. One bottle of wieners lasted for 5 days and the rest was spent on beer. but this was no real life, like it is now.

    Its a totally new experience and I am glad that my gf is an SP. Tho I am still struggling with this full life experience and grave decision making. I am very hesistant about making decisions in a field in which I have no expertise. but without a first step, nobody would have gotten to the moon.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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