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  1. #111
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    I like this response. I suppose you didn't call anyone idiots, I was mixing up some other responses in the thread, but there was "snowflake" talk. I don't find using a "perjorative shorthand" to be a problem when it's used as a convenient label, but it can be if there's nothing else behind it, I wasn't entirely sure of what was going on in your head, it's good to get some idea. I'm hesitant to provide support when I don't get a clearer idea of what's going on.

    What sort of place do you live, anyway?

    I didn't have a similar experience as a teenager, for the most part. I grew up in Wash., DC and moved out to a affluent suburb later on. Revealing clothing wasn't an issue, "slut shaming" wasn't a thing that I was ever aware of locally. There are a few kids in the area who are/were pretty 'entitled' in their demeanor.

    In my mind, I think people vary and while they have many baseline traits in common it's seems people are unique to some degree. And there are individuals and groups who legitimately are superior in ability than others. I don't think an awareness or pride of these traits is a bad thing, and is critical in assessing qualifications. Of course, when people think they should get special treatment without doing anything deserving it can be obnoxious, but everyone has their own sense of what they want and what they think they should get or to what degree they find it appropriate to try to get what they want. Ultimately it's the interplay between persons or groups that decides what happens, there isn't a correct answer.

    Expanding your self awareness of your values will help you negotiate with other people who have different values?

    Just my thoughts on that. Good luck with everything.
    Thank you. I live in a ghetto smalltown. How was it like over there? There's nothing wrong with revealing clothing but slut-shaming is definitely an issue. I agree with you but the problem is when people think they are superior to others by just being unique. Although they are legitimately superior in ability than others, would you say they are superior to other human beings in a philosophical sense? Shouldn't all humans be judged equally for their actions? Of course it isn't, ad I completely agree with you but there's a problem when people think they're special and better than people by virtue of being a unique human being. Although I do get along with some people who have different values than mine, a lot of people are quick to insult and degrade your values. If you have different values than them, you're practically the devil reincarnated.

  2. #112
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleda View Post
    Thank you. I live in a ghetto smalltown. How was it like over there? There's nothing wrong with revealing clothing but slut-shaming is definitely an issue.
    I've been to most the major stops on the east coast Miami to Montreal (and out to Texas too) and DC is uniquely well educated and I think it shows in how people react to things. There are, of course, people with poor tempers, poor education, and flawed understandings, but there are beliefs that I've found much more prevalent outside DC that would basically never fly (in large numbers) where I'm from. It's also a remarkably diverse city. Sure, you can read about these things in census reports and other measures, but aside from parts of NYC, one variable that is fairly subjective is that if you spend time in the city itself there is more social contact among a variety of ethnic groups than I've experienced anywhere else, which I didn't notice until I left and traveled and came back.

    This doesn't make everyone less xenophobic, persay, but I feel it gives me more insight than some friends I have in very homogeneous Vermont, for instance.

    My family left DC when I was around your age for the suburbs, because the public system there is much much better. I went to a high school where some 95% of students go to college in a very wealthy county.

    As you might expect there are many people who have an elitist mentality. However, despite the common impression that anyone who grows up surrounded by wealth and opportunity is a spoiled rich kid who thinks they can buy everything and anything without doing the work, I don't feel like this is true of the overwhelming majority of the people I went to school with. But there were some real knuckleheads in there, absolutely. And now that I'm older and I'm working with some families who have high school aged children and I'm appalled by some of the behavior I've observed. Some of these kids really do think they can do whatever they want, that there are no consequences. I've also met a lot of extremely hard working, motivated, and well equipped individuals.

    Of course, if you take away the mental framing effect you'll find that many areas are similar, that there are knuckleheads and earnest workers everywhere, but their environment and access to opportunity changes.

    --------

    ...Although they are legitimately superior in ability than others, would you say they are superior to other human beings in a philosophical sense? Shouldn't all humans be judged equally for their actions? Of course it isn't, ad I completely agree with you but there's a problem when people think they're special and better than people by virtue of being a unique human being.
    It depends on your philosophy. In my view, it depends what you are trying to accomplish. If you need to diffuse a bomb, an explosive ordinance technician is a higher value asset than someone who can't even hold wire cutters.

    If you're trying to establish equity among men, well things are different.

    Although I do get along with some people who have different values than mine, a lot of people are quick to insult and degrade your values. If you have different values than them, you're practically the devil reincarnated.
    A lot of people don't recognize or choose not believe in the relative nature of values. That said, I don't think it's wrong to engage in "tribe forming" based on what you value. Who else but you will get you what you want in life? Some people have good conflict negotiation skills and try to find cooperative strategies, but sometimes values do legitimately clash and you can't work with the other person or group and you have to compete, other times there's enough room for people to pursue separate goals away from each other.

    Unfortunately, most the time when values clash people don't recognize how they react and how it's tied to their emotional needs and perceptions and they get threatened and aggressive if you disagree instead of realizing that (often times) even in situations where there is a clash of values, a fight or anger or name calling doesn't solve anything and muddles the situation.

    It's important to recognize your own values - when you know what you value and care about you'll understand your emotional vulnerabilities better and handle conflict with more clarity.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  3. #113
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    I've been to most the major stops on the east coast Miami to Montreal (and out to Texas too) and DC is uniquely well educated and I think it shows in how people react to things. There are, of course, people with poor tempers, poor education, and flawed understandings, but there are beliefs that I've found much more prevalent outside DC that would basically never fly (in large numbers) where I'm from. It's also a remarkably diverse city. Sure, you can read about these things in census reports and other measures, but aside from parts of NYC, one variable that is fairly subjective is that if you spend time in the city itself there is more social contact among a variety of ethnic groups than I've experienced anywhere else, which I didn't notice until I left and traveled and came back.

    This doesn't make everyone less xenophobic, persay, but I feel it gives me more insight than some friends I have in very homogeneous Vermont, for instance.

    My family left DC when I was around your age for the suburbs, because the public system there is much much better. I went to a high school where some 95% of students go to college in a very wealthy county.

    As you might expect there are many people who have an elitist mentality. However, despite the common impression that anyone who grows up surrounded by wealth and opportunity is a spoiled rich kid who thinks they can buy everything and anything without doing the work, I don't feel like this is true of the overwhelming majority of the people I went to school with. But there were some real knuckleheads in there, absolutely. And now that I'm older and I'm working with some families who have high school aged children and I'm appalled by some of the behavior I've observed. Some of these kids really do think they can do whatever they want, that there are no consequences. I've also met a lot of extremely hard working, motivated, and well equipped individuals.

    Of course, if you take away the mental framing effect you'll find that many areas are similar, that there are knuckleheads and earnest workers everywhere, but their environment and access to opportunity changes.

    --------



    It depends on your philosophy. In my view, it depends what you are trying to accomplish. If you need to diffuse a bomb, an explosive ordinance technician is a higher value asset than someone who can't even hold wire cutters.

    If you're trying to establish equity among men, well things are different.



    A lot of people don't recognize or choose not believe in the relative nature of values. That said, I don't think it's wrong to engage in "tribe forming" based on what you value. Who else but you will get you what you want in life? Some people have good conflict negotiation skills and try to find cooperative strategies, but sometimes values do legitimately clash and you can't work with the other person or group and you have to compete, other times there's enough room for people to pursue separate goals away from each other.

    Unfortunately, most the time when values clash people don't recognize how they react and how it's tied to their emotional needs and perceptions and they get threatened and aggressive if you disagree instead of realizing that (often times) even in situations where there is a clash of values, a fight or anger or name calling doesn't solve anything and muddles the situation.

    It's important to recognize your own values - when you know what you value and care about you'll understand your emotional vulnerabilities better and handle conflict with more clarity.
    Thank you for replying to my post. This was definitely very interesting and somewhat insightful to read.

  4. #114
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    I hated that part about being a teenager too, I knew a few wannabes that bragged about how different or skilled they were, but every time I turned around, there they were acting like they were the first kid to walk in with a Nike shirt or Gap jeans and bragging about the bloody murder they get away with/people they lead around by the nose and how no one's going to say anything about them because having a respected sibling equals automatic trust from people. I can't believe I ever thought some of those people were cool before they showed their true colors.

  5. #115
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jewelluckystar05 View Post
    I hated that part about being a teenager too, I knew a few wannabes that bragged about how different or skilled they were, but every time I turned around, there they were acting like they were the first kid to walk in with a Nike shirt or Gap jeans and bragging about the bloody murder they get away with/people they lead around by the nose and how no one's going to say anything about them because having a respected sibling equals automatic trust from people. I can't believe I ever thought some of those people were cool before they showed their true colors.
    Honestly, that happens a lot. Now it's all about Hot Topic and fake glasses. It's like do you honestly believe you're a nonconformist who's going to change the world by shopping at a certain store or making certain jokes? Yeah, and sometimes it's just a case of getting sick of someone's pretense and seeing them for who they truly are after a while.

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by jewelluckystar05 View Post
    I hated that part about being a teenager too, I knew a few wannabes that bragged about how different or skilled they were, but every time I turned around, there they were acting like they were the first kid to walk in with a Nike shirt or Gap jeans and bragging about the bloody murder they get away with/people they lead around by the nose and how no one's going to say anything about them because having a respected sibling equals automatic trust from people. I can't believe I ever thought some of those people were cool before they showed their true colors.
    How were your teenage years like?

  7. #117
    Senior Member EvidenceOfRedemption's Avatar
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    I felt similarly as a teenager (ie not relating to my peers' immaturity) and my advice is this... learn to have fun while you can, because eventually the world around you grows up. A world devoid of naivete can become dull, and you'll find yourself seeking outlets for a repressed desire for fun. If you don't believe me, explain all the mid-life crisis people have where they throw caution to the wind and find something more "them". Might as well get all that over with while you're young and it doesn't involve upending a family or career.

  8. #118
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvidenceOfRedemption View Post
    I felt similarly as a teenager (ie not relating to my peers' immaturity) and my advice is this... learn to have fun while you can, because eventually the world around you grows up. A world devoid of naivete can become dull, and you'll find yourself seeking outlets for a repressed desire for fun. If you don't believe me, explain all the mid-life crisis people have where they throw caution to the wind and find something more "them". Might as well get all that over with while you're young and it doesn't involve upending a family or career.
    What kind of fun did you have? I'm somewhat bad at having traditional fun, mostly because I don't truly have fun if I'm not with a lot of people. Hmm I guess. That's very possible. I definitely don't want to do anything impulsive later in life. Yeah, definitely, and there would be less people judging a teenager for doing certain things.

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