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  1. #11
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Also, I've had some extraverts (who would be great during discussions) fall to pieces during formal speeches, and some introverts (who wouldn't say two words on a normal basis) who would bust out these unexpected displays of oratorical prowess, so it's not I/E related, I don't think.
    Yeah I assumed as much. For me the problem is having the limelight forced upon me, which I find such a...drag.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #12
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    Impromptu speech? Bad, bad, bad, bad. Never before has a man paused and said "uh..." so many times.

    Prepared speech? Oh baby, it's on. I love giving prepared speeches. Especially if it's about a subject matter I know well or something I'm very passionate about. I'm definitely one of those introverts Orangey was talking about a couple posts above who "busts out unexpected displays of oratorical prowess".

  3. #13
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    When I was in grade school, high school and even college, I tended to be the person who wouldn't speak up in class. A good portion of that was being uncomfortable talking in front groups of people. I took a couple of public speaking classes in college because I knew it was something that was going to be important for work and that I needed to get more comfortable with it and reasonably good at it. I recall having to give a presentation to a couple of hundred people for the first time after I had been working for a few years and being utterly petrified. I was pretty terrible because I was so nervous. When I did my masters, which was several years after undergrad, by that time, I was a bit more socially assertive and was constantly asking questions in class. After I got into consulting, I had to do so much public speaking I did get better at it. I took a couple of classes where they record you, critique you, etc. I've read a couple of books on it. I reached a point where I could do it somewhat comfortably. I've done maybe a couple hundred of them including some to a few hundred people. Still to be honest, this is still something I'm challenged with today. Presentations and public speaking stress me out. If given the chance to assign someone else the job to do a presentation in front of the group vs. doing it myself, I will do it. Once I get past the first minute or two, I'm generally fine (unless I'm feeling the wrong kind of response from the crowd on what I'm saying). It's the anxiety leading up to speaking that is the worst.

    The most important thing I've found is to think through what I want to say which generally involves writing some stuff down. I get the best results jotting some notes down on a page or so. I also find the earlier I say something to a group (it could be anything), the more comfortable I am after that point. So if I'm going to give a presentation, it's easier if I ask a question or two of another presenter before I go up and talk. I had to do a really important one last year with a somewhat "unruly" executive audience. I prepared what I was going to say. I tried to think of all the questions they might ask and how I could respond. Somehow then I adopted an attitude of faith that everything will turn out fine. I came out pretty unscathed and it went pretty well actually.

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  4. #14
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    What are people's opinions or feelings towards speaking in public?

    As in a formal situation in which you are required to introduce somebody, give a speech or read an excerpt.

    See I hate it...hate it with a passion, it makes me immensely nervous and it takes all my energy to compose myself for it. Annoyingly I keep getting thrown into these situations and im starting to wonder if someone, somewhere, is playing a massive joke on me.

    The worst part is the more I do it, the worse I get. I would have thought it would be the opposite, that I might get used to it with time and experience....but no I get more awkward and more nervous each time. Ive always disliked being in the spotlight....the only thing that comes close to this where I am comfortable is in an informal setting with a small group of friends.

    Is there an element of extraversion vs introversion to this? I expect that there isn't really, that people can get nervous regardless of their disposition.

    But I would like to know what people's experiences have been like with regards to this subject.
    So you hate public speaking eh? Would you say that you prefer to focus on other people and are very generous? I'm thinking its the Fe other-orientation coupled with the shadow Ti desire to stay detached.
    I N V I C T U S

  5. #15
    Senior Member EntangledLight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    There's this middle ground, I find, where people are expected to speak but not given enough constructive practice, and I think that's probably more damaging than helpful. Back when I used to TA public speaking, my method was to have speaking every day instead of simply demanding that they do four speeches over the course of three months and somehow magically improve (I would also arrange for them to do exercises out in the courtyard so that they never got that too-comfy-with-their-classmates syndrome.) I think some people probably need even more practice than that to master their fear, but my theory is that it's got to be a lot of practice or else the entire thing is useless and possibly damaging.

    Basically, it's bad to have people languishing in mediocre practice land.

    Also, I've had some extraverts (who would be great during discussions) fall to pieces during formal speeches, and some introverts (who wouldn't say two words on a normal basis) who would bust out these unexpected displays of oratorical prowess, so it's not I/E related, I don't think.
    lol, oh god. having an Se-dom. teacher for public speaking?

    teacher: "alright, i'm throwing you to the sharks so you better learn to swim--quickly!"

    student: "wha? it's the first day of clas--*push*--ahhhhhh!"

    teacher: "believe me, this is for the best. there'll be no dilly-dallying around here."

    ... although, for something like public speaking, that's probably a great method.

    my own experiences were nerve-wracking at first, but i just went up there with the intention of failing terribly and all of my anxiety slipped away. it's like i could feel myself recede back into myself; i could find my center by doing this. at that point i had no problem addressing whatever issue and could even do it with a my own specific twist (one that naturally comes out with people i'm comfortable with).

    i would also purposefully make myself look silly, like making it apparent that i was a nervous wreck by smiling and making my eyes as big as possible as if i was shocked, followed by a big relieved sigh; maybe shaking out a leg or two like some people do before a physical activity. it let other people know that i was nervous, and by bringing it out into the open its significance immediately dissipated.

  6. #16
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    I have to speak to groups of ~50 people (customers) that I don't know to introduce myself, my company and some further explanations.

    Here are some of my experiences:

    - I hate speaking through microphones. If I can avoid them and speak directly to a group without a microphone I will do so. That way I don't stumble over my own words.
    - It is best for me NOT to think about what I am going to say and just say it. When I first think what I want to say and then give the speech, it's going to be choppy and filled with errs.
    - Trusting myself to know what must be said (without thinking it through) is half the battle.
    - When I do have to speak through a microphone (because it's noisy or whatever), I try to do say while making eye contact with the 'audience', that way I'll take some focus away from the echoing voice in my head. If I start to introvertedly 'look inside myself' by averting my eyes, all hell breaks loose.

    Do I like being in the spotlight?
    No. But I can tolerate it for a short time.
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  7. #17
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thursday View Post
    So you hate public speaking eh? Would you say that you prefer to focus on other people and are very generous? I'm thinking its the Fe other-orientation coupled with the shadow Ti desire to stay detached.
    What do you mean by Ti shadow? Anyone who has Ti also has Fe or vice versa anyone who has Fe also has Ti somewhere.

    Te would be a shadow there. Unless you meant something different by 'shadow Ti'.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  8. #18
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EntangledLight View Post
    lol, oh god. having an Se-dom. teacher for public speaking?

    teacher: "alright, i'm throwing you to the sharks so you better learn to swim--quickly!"

    student: "wha? it's the first day of clas--*push*--ahhhhhh!"

    teacher: "believe me, this is for the best. there'll be no dilly-dallying around here."

    ... although, for something like public speaking, that's probably a great method.

    my own experiences were nerve-wracking at first, but i just went up there with the intention of failing terribly and all of my anxiety slipped away. it's like i could feel myself recede back into myself; i could find my center by doing this. at that point i had no problem addressing whatever issue and could even do it with a my own specific twist (one that naturally comes out with people i'm comfortable with).

    i would also purposefully make myself look silly, like making it apparent that i was a nervous wreck by smiling and making my eyes as big as possible as if i was shocked, followed by a big relieved sigh; maybe shaking out a leg or two like some people do before a physical activity. it let other people know that i was nervous, and by bringing it out into the open its significance immediately dissipated.
    Hehe, that's the thing, though...I didn't judge too harshly. I threw them in the water but didn't mind if they bobbed along or treaded. In fact, a lot of the time I would just have them do silly shit on a whim that was more about allowing them to become used to the physical and psychological feeling of being in front of people with the expectation of speech and less about what they said or how they said it (don't even get me started on the lack of emphasis schools have on elocution...I didn't even bother with that too much since it requires a much deeper level of training and commitment that's just not possible in 50 minutes three times a week.) For instance, I would bring in my book with nonsense poetry (think, "twas brillig") and have everyone read a couple while standing in front of the class...and one of the readings had to be in a British accent.

    The majority of the kids were as you described yourself- nervous at first, but quickly getting the pace of things and becoming comfortable. I actually explicitly told them to do as you did as an option if they felt they could pull it off non-awkwardly...mention or play off of your nervousness in a funny or self-deprecating way, and they will have automatically boosted their ethos and gained the sympathy of the audience. It's a predictable and nubbish tactic, but it is one that's effective for beginners.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  9. #19
    Senior Member EntangledLight's Avatar
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    lol, well i am pretty "nubbish" when it comes to things like that. but my doing it wasn't so much playing towards the audiences' sympathies as it was... "objectifying" my anxiety. to bring it out in the open made it seem so much smaller and ridiculous.

  10. #20
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I've taught enough classes for the army that it no longer bugs me. I still get nervous when its just me and a whole group of people in other situations--interviews, and things like that.. but just getting up and talking infront of people? That doesn't bother me at all.

    I think what bothers me more than anything else is self-doubt--if there is room for error, or for me to fail, I will get nervous about that. If I need a job, it puts pressure on the interview. But I've grown out of the times where I was too nervous to speak infront of a class.
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