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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    But the US isn't the only country in the world - and the American point of view isn't the only rational point of view.
    Well even in another country "I'd rather give money to a pan-handler than someone working" to me still isn't rational, even by Marxist standards, and I explained to you why.

    I never said the U.S. was the only country, but you're talking about ideal worlds and how you apparently feel better giving to charity (even though your charity may be going to a crackhead?) than to a worker (who may be homeless themselves, or a paycheck or two away from homelessness) ...no, that's not rational.

    Feeling resentment toward servers and charity toward homeless people is weird to me too, like some kind of personal bias you must have.

    That's all I'm saying. I know that working conditions are better for servers in other countries. I'd love to work in a restaurant in Western Europe.

  2. #42
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    I think at times I overtip. My ISTj cousin is teaching me the merits of tipping more as... rewarding proper behavior? This is why I prefer to just go to fancy places (when it's responsible fiscally).

    Edit:

    I originally thought this thread was going to be about cow tipping.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Phoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Feeling resentment toward servers and charity toward homeless people is weird to me too, like some kind of personal bias you must have.
    You keep assuming that I have some sort of resentment.

    I said I want to live in a world where I do not need to tip. How does that translate into resentment?

  4. #44
    Kraken down on piracy Lux's Avatar
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    I was a server for a while (I live in the U.S. if it matters).. if service is normal I tip 20%, if it's excellent I tip more depending on how much the experience and their part in it, impacted me. I don't think I've ever tipped less than 15%.. and that was for bad service.. I figured there was an underlying issue with the person.
    "It is not length of life, but depth of life." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

    "Thought breeds thought." ~ Henry David Thoreau

  5. #45
    Senior Member Phoenix's Avatar
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    @Marmie Dearest --- and also -- what makes you think that servers can't be potheads and crackheads who wouldn't waste that extra money on the same? And again -- this isn't "resentment" --- this is looking at all possibilities and not just transfixing myself to a rigid point of view.

    And what someone chooses to do with my charity or tip is their business. I wouldn't control/restrict my actions based on a presumption of their spending habits. That would be cynical - and I'm not a cynic. I'd rather believe that if I'm giving someone whatever charity I'm giving them, then they have a right to do with it what they will. Yes, I have a responsibility to try to discriminate between the more deserving or the less deserving, but in these cases, it's pretty much impossible to predict the outcome of what happens to any charity we ever give.

    I prefer one over the other generally, but that's not how I always behave. You have to look at every case individually.

  6. #46
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    I don't tip.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  7. #47
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    So -- if it's so hard to legislate, then why is it that Canada has been able to successfully implement a higher wage rate than America for waiters and waitresses?
    This is a very long and complicated subject that would take several years of study to understand fully.

    I don't understand any of the points that you've been making. Most of us in the US don't want to tip. Most of us would prefer that the people working at the restaurant were paid a decent wage. However, we're not going to go changing the system overnight, and too often, the people who are most vocal about their dislike for tipping are simply cheap bastards.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    I don't tip.

  9. #49
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    He's not in the States.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

    ~

  10. #50
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    He's not in the States.
    Neither were my parents when they tipped on their meals outside of the U.S.

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