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View Poll Results: Where should blame lay?

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  • With myself, I should explain more fully/clearer/etc.

    12 60.00%
  • With my audience as they are not up to the task of understanding me.

    3 15.00%
  • With me, as I chose the audience poorly.

    5 25.00%
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Results 11 to 20 of 36

  1. #11
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Not a formal rhetorical event, then.
    Well, not all formal rhetorical events are necessarily combative, nor are all informal ones non-combative. If persuasion is the end-goal, then the only fundamental difference between situations is the means by which that goal is reached, and those cross over into all types of situations, formal or informal.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  2. #12
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Sorry to add another "it depends", but yeah.

    But I think in any situation where there is "blame" or whatever - it's not usually 100% one person's fault. Sometimes it might be 90/10. but usually it is a bit more spread out than that.

    In terms of understanding/being understood, I can get really unhappy and pissed off and all the rest of it when I feel misunderstood - I think also because in certain situations it can relate to me feeling "used", etc. But then, you know, sometimes I'm mad partly at myself, too. It might be mostly channelled at the person who did the misunderstanding, but I know I'm partly mad at myself, because if I had clarified things it might have alleviated the problem at least somewhat.
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  3. #13
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    The burden of proof lies with your mom.

    But seriously, I think it depends. Typically I think the burden of proof, rhetorically speaking, is on the person making the claim (which is why you can't make a ridiculous claim, have somebody say "that's a ridiculous claim," reply with "prove it" and not get smacked in the ear) but not every conversation is a rhetorical event. I would say that in most conversation/communication, both parties have a responsibility: the speaker to communicate clearly and without invective, and the listener to be open to what the speaker is saying instead of looking for ways to pick at the speaker's words and planning what they're going to say when it's their turn to talk.
    I agree with this, but I don't think that the listener there has a responsibility, so much as this is the presumption in good communication. If there is a lack of openness and willingness on the part of the speaker to understand, then it excuses the speaker's inability to communicate effectively.

  4. #14
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    I agree with this, but I don't think that the listener there has a responsibility, so much as this is the presumption in good communication. If there is a lack of openness and willingness on the part of the speaker to understand, then it excuses the speaker's inability to communicate effectively.
    Exactly, though there are varying degrees of willingness/openness that can, to some extent, be manipulated by the speaker. In functional intimate settings it probably feels less like "persuasion" because the parties are pre-conditioned to be much more open to one another right off the bat.
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  5. #15
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    Mostly the person should be clear with their thoughts and adapt to the audience in question. There are various ways of looking at data and interpreting words, and in the absence of a clear goal and scope, for instance, it's quite delusional to presume that everyone will be on the same wavelength and/or read minds.

  6. #16
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    In my case, the blame is on my audience. I don't even want to explain things in the first place, so they have no right to demand elaboration. Expressing proof on something that already intrinsically makes sense is pointless.

  7. #17
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    I would say it depends on the goals the speakers and listeners are trying to achieve.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Pinker85's Avatar
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    On the person not wearing an elephant.

  9. #19
    Member Sneaky Bastard's Avatar
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    It depends...

    If the person is TRYING to understand me with an open mind but doesn't get what I'm trying to tell them I should elaborate further and they're not to blame...and I might beat myself up over not being able to get my message across properly.

    But if they're not even trying to understand and if they're full of prejudice etc. it's their fault and they should go f* themselves. And even if they're trying to understand me but feel superior while trying it's their fault as well...

    ...but even then I can be unhappy about my poor ability to express my thoughts in a way everybody understands it...in addition to being furious about those... PEOPLE...

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  10. #20
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    If you speak and are misunderstood by someone is it your fault for not being clear in your thoughts? Or does the fault lie with the other person for being inadequate to the task of understanding?
    Depends on who would have made the most effort in reaching an understanding.

    If you're misunderstood, the other inquires, you explain differently and you're understood. Everything is fine.

    But if you're misunderstood and the other person makes no attempt to try and understand you, regardless of your efforts, the burden lies with that person.

    If you're misunderstood, the other person makes an inquiry, but you decide you rather not bother explaining because you feel like the other person 'will not understand anyway'. The burden lies with you.



    So the burden of proof lies with the person that walks out.




    Making ridiculous claims can still be understood, even if they would not be right. There is no burden of proof on the speaker making the claim, as some have said here, in my opinion. If you make a ridiculous claim, the other person probably won't agree with you, but can still show his side of the story with arguementation and facts and give your claim the consideration.

    Understanding does not equal agreement.


    edit: I made this post focusing on the misunderstanding aspect of the thread's title, by the way. Obviously the burden of proof would lie with the one that makes the claim if he wants to persuade other people to conform to his claim. But that has nothing to do with misunderstanding.
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