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  1. #11
    Bunnies & Rainbow Socks Kayness's Avatar
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    Thanks all!
    @Etherea Thank you! Well, they didn't really pad the critiques, I'm sure it would have gone down a lot easier, but in the end the message is the same anyway. I can suck it up I suppose!
    @Phoenix - you're right, the core emotion of my instinctive triad is anger, and I guess like a 1, the anger I feel is directed inwards most of the time(now that I've worked on myself enough to accept that I can allow myself to feel angry), which makes me really hard on myself, and I think the shame I feel is an extension of that - not living up to the standard that I set for myself. or something like that. It made so much sense in my mind but when I see it in writing it feels really weird.
    @Fluffywolf that piece is commissioned and the client wanted polka dot dress, so I drew polka dot dress and thank you! I am actually looking into that field of work, and in fact I'm working on a children's book illustration project right now.
    @gromit thanks!
    @Jennifer Thank you so much! This is what i've been doing, too. To weed out feedback that's just indicative of preference and to the ones that I think is....well, uh, 'objective' for a lack of better word. For example, criticism about bright colours would belong in the former category and criticism about perspective & values belongs to the latter.
    @phobik that's precisely it. Now I just need to put it to practice
    @UniqueMixture thanks
    @Manifold Thank you!

    Thing is, I know that no matter how 'good' I am, I have room for improvement and I probably always will no matter how much better I get. It's a constantly evolving process. I also know that external feedback is invaluable because, well, being in the centre of it I may blind to so many things that are obvious to a third party observer. I also know that their critique isn't an attack against me or my art but just how I can improve. I think the biggest obstacle I'm facing is that the ability to REALLY INTEGRATE that understanding into my self. For me, there are two layers of understanding: the outer layer and the inner layer, and the inner layer is where I really personalize and really *feel* it. Gee I don't know if anyone's following here...:S I'ts kinda hard for me to explain it better. maybe @Stephen could?

    When I made that thread, I was like, well this is a great chance to flex my Te and be objective about the feedback that I get, but when it really happened I was like.....wellllllllllll whuuuuh no i wasn't!!!
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  2. #12
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayness View Post
    Thing is, I know that no matter how 'good' I am, I have room for improvement and I probably always will no matter how much better I get. It's a constantly evolving process. I also know that external feedback is invaluable because, well, being in the centre of it I may blind to so many things that are obvious to a third party observer. I also know that their critique isn't an attack against me or my art but just how I can improve. I think the biggest obstacle I'm facing is that the ability to REALLY INTEGRATE that understanding into my self. For me, there are two layers of understanding: the outer layer and the inner layer, and the inner layer is where I really personalize and really *feel* it. Gee I don't know if anyone's following here...:S I'ts kinda hard for me to explain it better.
    Yeah, I know what you mean. I think a lot of important learning works that way -- I usually refer to it (with my religious background) as "head knowledge" vs "heart knowledge." you know it in your mind, but you haven't quite incorporated it into how you breathe, eat, live yet, where it's instinctive and you just know it in a way that is beyond your mind. Sometimes we don't even realize when something has shifted over; I've had things I remember struggling with, and then later at some point I realized I had changed and it had become part of me and I don't even remember when.

    Just keep plugging away at it, and believing it, and eventually it'll shift inside where it matters.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #13
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Etherea View Post
    Maybe they're not providing enough positive feedback to go along with it? I find that criticism goes down a lot better with some nice compliments.
    Critique is a tricky thing. I believe in a lot of cases, it's unnecessary. Most people aren't very good at giving it. Criticism delivered badly can be more harmful than helpful. Sometimes, others are right. Other times, they are wrong. The trick is how to know the difference. You have to separate out the critique that is useful and learn to ignore the critique that isn't useful. I personally have a tendency at times to get defensive in the moment and then beat myself up later about what I did wrong - neither of which is very productive. I'm more critical of myself than any other person could possibly be. Bad criticism (which misses the point or is wrong), just makes me angry.

    This might be a very Ni way of looking at the world, but I generally think the best way to handle critique, either positive or negative, is as a data point. The collection of data points helps lead towards some conclusion or set of conclusions which help you to learn and know yourself. I wonder about someone like Picasso. If he'd listened to everyone else, would he have turned out to be who he was? In the end, it's about prioritizing what you hear from others and taking action on the things that are most important or within your power to address.

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  4. #14
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    Some people don't like the bright colors. I personally prefer them.

    As for the more objective elements, I am not a painter.

    However, I would say that you should ask WHICH WORK IN PARTICULAR they made that criticism about, and don't let them affect you too much if they generalize your work as a whole, because any artist has some better paintings/drawings than others and different people prefer different things.

  5. #15

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    While criticism is objective in a sense it is also subjective, in that it isn't always clear what is trying to be achieved. In the picture of the guy the arm anatomy is pretty good but the back looks weak comparatively. I don't know if that is what you wanted. Also with the colours, bright might just be your style. I think it is more a matter of whether you need to incorporate it into your style or not. I dislike criticism too,, or feel like it. and initially push back. Perhaps you could plan elaborate revenge in a notebook as a cathartic creative exercise.

  6. #16
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    It seems like you're well aware of the goal that needs to be achieved - namely, that you need to detach so that criticism of your work doesn't feel like criticism of your identity - but have no idea how to go about achieving it. And honestly, I have no idea what to tell you. Yoga, perhaps? Meditation?

    I take criticism pretty well (if it's coming from someone whose motivations I trust) because I try my hardest to anticipate the kinds of criticisms that might come up. If I already expect them, then I can either start to think about how to fix things or, if I know it's an unjustified criticism, think about what to say in defense.

    Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, you said that you are already in the habit of criticizing yourself harshly, right? Why, then, does external criticism make you feel so insecure? If anything you would have already anticipated the criticism and formed a reaction beforehand, taking away both the harsh immediacy and crestfallen feeling you get from the blind or entitled approach. Perhaps you are not as harsh or objective with yourself as you could be?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I take criticism pretty well (if it's coming from someone whose motivations I trust) ...

    Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, you said that you are already in the habit of criticizing yourself harshly, right? Why, then, does external criticism make you feel so insecure?
    I think when I have issues myself with this kind of thing, the answer is right there: Can I trust them to truly see my skill ability (rather than thinking I'm worse or better than I am after they've seen my flaws?), and can I trust that they won't think poorly of me because of my flaws, and maybe reject me or ridicule me?

    I don't know what Kay's answer is, but I know for me it's kind of in that ballpark. I don't really have issues with criticism from people I know well and trust.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think when I have issues myself with this kind of thing, the answer is right there: Can I trust them to truly see my skill ability (rather than thinking I'm worse or better than I am after they've seen my flaws?), and can I trust that they won't think poorly of me because of my flaws, and maybe reject me or ridicule me?

    I don't know what Kay's answer is, but I know for me it's kind of in that ballpark. I don't really have issues with criticism from people I know well and trust.
    You're so wrong! You don't care what other people think of you, you have your own style and even if they critique your style, at most you will revisit your opinion, and if he have judged that their opinion is of no worth you will dismiss it and if you think they have a point you incoorperate it.

    So, now for the interesting part, in what manner did you take the above critique on your post?
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  9. #19
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    You're so wrong! You don't care what other people think of you, you have your own style and even if they critique your style, at most you will revisit your opinion, and if he have judged that their opinion is of no worth you will dismiss it and if you think they have a point you incoorperate it.

    So, now for the interesting part, in what manner did you take the above critique on your post?
    Well, since I don't trust you, I just blew you off.




    .....

    ha ha ha

    Actually, I immediately bristled physically with the "you're so wrong!" starter and felt tears start to well up. Then I started to laugh because I knew you were just being a putz and trying to jerk my chain, and for a second it had worked.

    My next response was to think, "Wait a minute, isn't it responsible to actually listen, and then only incorporate what makes sense to me? What a goofball."

    And my next response was to think, "Man, he has really crappy grammar."
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #20
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    And my next response was to think, "Man, he has really crappy grammar."


    I will take your critique to my heart and attempt to improve my English in the future. (Like tomorrow, or the day after. )
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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