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  1. #1
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Default Define Selfishness

    How would you define selfishness/self centeredness ?
    What separates the objective and subjective parts of that concept/behavior/outlook ?

    In a world where everything and everyone is interconnected and consequences span multiple levels of interactions and moral consequences etc. what is selfish?
    Is it behavior? Outlook?
    How can you know someone s outlook from their behavior ?
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
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    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
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  2. #2
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    When one's id has been abnormally developed, and it overrides the ego (and superego) in daily functioning, in an attempt to right itself.
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  3. #3
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    When one's id has been abnormally developed, and it overrides the ego (and superego) in daily functioning, in an attempt to right itself.
    Interesting perspective. So unbalance between the basic drives and the ego is selfish? Its especially interesting as we after all call self-ish being ego centered
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  4. #4
    Kraken down on piracy Lux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    How would you define selfishness/self centeredness ?
    What separates the objective and subjective parts of that concept/behavior/outlook ?

    In a world where everything and everyone is interconnected and consequences span multiple levels of interactions and moral consequences etc. what is selfish?
    Is it behavior? Outlook?
    How can you know someone s outlook from their behavior ?
    I think 'selfish' is a conscious refusal to acknowledge a different perspective, and it causes discomfort on some level. Guilt, anger, depression, moments of happiness, etc.

    No one is selfless, no can solely exist to please and be there for others, it is against nature. So in this world of interconnectedness there is a balance of being on the giving and receiving end of selfishness. The trick is finding others to allow the drama to unfold. Everyone needs people, in some form, in some regard and everyone is selfish, they must be. It is both behavior and outlook, however, the behavior is what is shown to others, and so it is what stands out, open for interpretation. No one can know what someone thinks, and their true beliefs and motivations, and so outlook can be murkier. People can change and develop or change and revert to being more primitive. People do both all the time, as they're both necessary for life to exist.
    "It is not length of life, but depth of life." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

    "Thought breeds thought." ~ Henry David Thoreau

  5. #5
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lux View Post
    I think 'selfish' is a conscious refusal to acknowledge a different perspective, and it causes discomfort on some level. Guilt, anger, depression, moments of happiness, etc.

    No one is selfless, no can solely exist to please and be there for others, it is against nature. So in this world of interconnectedness there is a balance of being on the giving and receiving end of selfishness. The trick is finding others to allow the drama to unfold. Everyone needs people, in some form, in some regard and everyone is selfish, they must be. It is both behavior and outlook, however, the behavior is what is shown to others, and so it is what stands out, open for interpretation. No one can know what someone thinks, and their true beliefs and motivations, and so outlook can be murkier. People can change and develop or change and revert to being more primitive. People do both all the time, as they're both necessary for life to exist.
    Only true except when not. Moreso a necessary, self-serving reflection-based POV, stemming from a socially accepted, individually-driven, mutual validation of the self by the collective.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
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  6. #6
    Kraken down on piracy Lux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Only true except when not. Moreso a necessary, self-serving reflection-based POV, stemming from a socially accepted, individually-driven, mutual validation of the self by the collective.
    So did civilization create selfishness or was it there to begin with, just waiting for a trigger? Either way, I do think it is true.
    "It is not length of life, but depth of life." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

    "Thought breeds thought." ~ Henry David Thoreau

  7. #7
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    When you're self-centered you're not necessarily mean-spirited or willing to go too far to take from others for your own happiness. A certain amount of self-centeredness is normal and human, and even a pathological level of self-centeredness usually just comes across as absent-minded, childish, or blind rather than cruel.

    Selfishness on the other hand may mean actively and consciously taking from others to promote one's own welfare, refusing to cooperate with the group even to the point of stupidity (at a certain point selfishness goes from self-preservation to short-sightedness, there tends to be safety in numbers and the extremely selfish person tends to find themselves in trouble because they stole from the company via white collar crime, murdered someone to get ahead, or simply refused to share so when they find themselves in need, no one wants to share with them, either).

    Selfishness is more conscious, it's more of a conscious ethical choice, and tends to contain a more active malice against others.

    Even people who eschew selfishness may behave selfishly in times of fear or stress, but that's due to self-centeredness and less to real selfishness, which tends to be an overall world view.

  8. #8
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lux View Post
    So did civilization create selfishness or was it there to begin with, just waiting for a trigger? Either way, I do think it is true.
    Not create as much as feed, and likely more the in western world. It's an unavoidable trap, necessary in growth but not overcome without conscious intervention. Even awareness is just the beginning. It's a life long process and a challenge, that won't show up in TV shop, unless it's in the form of a self-help product, or some other similar form of catering to the dream-state mentality, and subject to triggering increasing avoidance reactions, the further one gets to the edge, as the mind will try and rewire itself as a result of one's, ever present, unconscious survival mechanisms, in an attempt to keep the existing, mind-made, sense of self/reality/sanity intact [out of fear of the unknown - hence why any kind of foundation shattering loss is often an enabler of the awareness process].
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  9. #9
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Not create as much as feed, and likely more the in western world. It's an unavoidable trap, necessary in growth but not overcome without conscious intervention. Even awareness is just the beginning. It's a life long process and a challenge, that won't show up in TV shop, unless it's in the form of a self-help product, or some other similar form of catering to the dream-state mentality, and subject to triggering increasing avoidance reactions, the further one gets to the edge, as the mind will try and rewire itself as a result of one's, ever present, unconscious survival mechanisms.
    Thats a lot of words to say that the self is the first filter and structure of perception.
    And what is this edge you speak of.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  10. #10
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Thats a lot of words to say that the self is the first filter and structure of perception.
    And what is this edge you speak of.
    Duality conflict within. You'll know/realize it if/when you feel/think it.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

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