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  1. #1
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Default How do you FAIL ART??

    Help!

    My EFP (probable ENFP) 12 year old is so awful at school. When she turns projects in she usually gets A's and B's. Lately she isn't even turning things in. She will just tell us that stuff isn't due (I did the same thing) and not turn things in. She says she forgot stuff at school or that it's on the computer at school so she'll "just print it out tomorrow"

    She currently has an F in Art Class and a D+ in language arts.

    I'm sure there are other P's that had/have this problem. I usually gamed the system enough to get pretty good grades, but definitely underachieved. She is to the point where she just doesn't turn stuff in at all. That's not really gaming anymore.

    Any suggestions for a P that just won't even turn stuff in? Art class doesnt even HAVE HOMEWORK.

    Thank you for any suggestions, feel free to post what you want, anything might help. The "my kid gets bad grades" google search is a big phail.

  2. #2
    Kraken down on piracy Lux's Avatar
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    Can you ask the teachers to let you know of the homework and projects and their due dates so she can't tell you that things aren't due? I bet they'd just send you an email of their assignment calendar. I know my brother (ESTP) did something similar in school and my dad had to step in a bit more, which he did and it actually seemed to help quite a bit.

    As to art class, are you sure it's not a 'not listening to the teacher thing' over a 'not doing the work thing'?

    Edit, I'm not trying to convey that you haven't done this, I just know this is what worked in my family.
    Last edited by Lux; 05-10-2012 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Additional thought.
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  3. #3
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Wow. I empathize. I've had the same issues with my ESFP -- he's very smart, and very artistic, but his grades have sucked ever since 7th grade mostly because he just doesn't turn assignments in. I wish I had a solution; he was extremely resistant to any kind of control placed over him and/or didn't respond to it, whether it was positive or negative incentive. His grades still are not where they should be, and often for this "dumb" reason of just not completing/turning in assignments.

    If I think of something later, I'll post it.
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  4. #4
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Help!

    My EFP (probable ENFP) 12 year old is so awful at school. When she turns projects in she usually gets A's and B's. Lately she isn't even turning things in. She will just tell us that stuff isn't due (I did the same thing) and not turn things in. She says she forgot stuff at school or that it's on the computer at school so she'll "just print it out tomorrow"

    She currently has an F in Art Class and a D+ in language arts.

    I'm sure there are other P's that had/have this problem. I usually gamed the system enough to get pretty good grades, but definitely underachieved. She is to the point where she just doesn't turn stuff in at all. That's not really gaming anymore.

    Any suggestions for a P that just won't even turn stuff in? Art class doesnt even HAVE HOMEWORK.

    Thank you for any suggestions, feel free to post what you want, anything might help. The "my kid gets bad grades" google search is a big phail.
    Hmm, my son is ESFP ... and this sounds familiar.

    Grade 7 was when it was very evident school was a bore-chore to him, and it was all we could do to get that last credit from him to finish high school. You might be in for a long haul here. Not to scare you or anything, but omg, there was nothing that could motivate him to do homework, positive or negative. We used almost every card in the deck, save shipping him off to military school or some other extreme measure. I've shared this story before, but my Dad offered to buy him a car if he got 80% in Grade 10 - A CAR (pfft he never bought ME a car!) but nope. We would take away every privilege - the computer, his games, social time, movies, no effect. Other big motivators instead - no effect. A guilt-filled emotional outburst could have a short-term impact, but I didn't want to parent like that because that's not my way.

    In short, my experience parenting an ESFP is you can lead a horse to water ... but you cannot make him drink. As you may imagine, his lackadaisical attitude drives his ESTJ father crazy.

    If I had a dollar for every first parent / teacher interview that started with ... "Your son is so gifted, a delight to have in the class, now if he would just turn in some homework I could give him a grade!" By the end of a year, they would be discouraged with him. He wasn't ever any trouble in class or at school, he just would not do homework!

    SO, suggestions:

    1.) Know the due dates of everything. Start now. Teachers are generally very open to sharing this info and lots have the stuff online now too, making it easier. You may need to be a homework nag.

    2.) If you have any concerns that your daughter has any kind of obstacle that could be impeding her ability or interest in school (does she need glasses, does she have dyslexia etc.) get that testing done. Finally at 16, we went whole hog to make sure our son didn't have a learning challenge of some sort because we could not comprehend why he would not do the work. We found nothing significant, but we did learn he was an auditory learner and in his final year of high school, he actually convinced a couple of teachers to let him do his exams orally.

    3.) Find some special motivating object she enjoys, and don't use it as a carrot, but surprise her with it when she does well. For my son, it was Pokemon cards, then sports cards, then Magic the Gathering cards. (Heck, I still surprise him with a pack of Magic cards every now and then and he's 23!) That positive association will build over time - it's one pull at least to start up that internal motivation motor.

    4.) Our son made crusades out of stuff throughout his teens. Wouldn't do the homework because he felt people shouldn't judge you on a number, and grades don't prove you know anything, you shouldn't be judged based on how you look or dress, stuff like that. So he went through phases of literal rejection of all that too - he deliberately wore dirty clothes to school, and didn't wash his hair everyday, stuff like that. You might have to roll with this kind of stuff.

    5.) Sports could keep him engaged in school, so we never took that away as a consequence of not doing homework - he might have lost interest all together if we had. Plus, it gave us something to praise up instead of always harping on what he wasn't doing. Find something you can be positive about so she doesn't just hear all negative.

    5.) and good luck - our son is energetic, funny, entertaining and has a huge heart and your daughter may be similarly inclined - if so, you can focus on all that when things seem difficult. School just isn't user-friendly for every personality type equally.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #5
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Help!
    My brother (ISTP) used to have a similar problem in elementary school. It escalated to the point where he was given a Student Planner which he had to write all of his assignments in. At the end of the school day, his teacher had to sign that day in the planner (to confirm that all assignments were written down). When he was home, our parents had to sign that day in the planner to confirm that they had seen the planner/assignments.

    Then it was just on my parents to make sure he completed all of his assignments while he was home now that they were well informed about what exactly he had to do.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

    ~

  6. #6
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how things are where your child goes to school, but the middle school where my daughter goes will fail her if she doesn't turn assignments in, including projects. My INFP son will be going to middle school not this coming year, but the year after and I've already told him that the shit he pulls in elementary school WILL NOT fly in middle school. Needless to say, I know it is going to be a struggle for all of us. Still, I have a feeling that he'll pull it together and do well in life.

    School isn't for everyone. That's not to say that I'm against education, but we all learn in different ways and a structured school setting doesn't work for everyone. Use MBTI as an indicator and help guide her towards things that are suited to her.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Hmm, my son is ESFP ... and this sounds familiar.

    Grade 7 was when it was very evident school was a bore-chore to him, and it was all we could do to get that last credit from him to finish high school. You might be in for a long haul here. Not to scare you or anything, but omg, there was nothing that could motivate him to do homework, positive or negative. We used almost every card in the deck, save shipping him off to military school or some other extreme measure. I've shared this story before, but my Dad offered to buy him a car if he got 80% in Grade 10 - A CAR (pfft he never bought ME a car!) but nope. We would take away every privilege - the computer, his games, social time, movies, no effect. Other big motivators instead - no effect. A guilt-filled emotional outburst could have a short-term impact, but I didn't want to parent like that because that's not my way.

    In short, my experience parenting an ESFP is you can lead a horse to water ... but you cannot make him drink. As you may imagine, his lackadaisical attitude drives his ESTJ father crazy.

    If I had a dollar for every first parent / teacher interview that started with ... "Your son is so gifted, a delight to have in the class, now if he would just turn in some homework I could give him a grade!" By the end of a year, they would be discouraged with him. He wasn't ever any trouble in class or at school, he just would not do homework!

    SO, suggestions:

    1.) Know the due dates of everything. Start now. Teachers are generally very open to sharing this info and lots have the stuff online now too, making it easier. You may need to be a homework nag.

    2.) If you have any concerns that your daughter has any kind of obstacle that could be impeding her ability or interest in school (does she need glasses, does she have dyslexia etc.) get that testing done. Finally at 16, we went whole hog to make sure our son didn't have a learning challenge of some sort because we could not comprehend why he would not do the work. We found nothing significant, but we did learn he was an auditory learner and in his final year of high school, he actually convinced a couple of teachers to let him do his exams orally.

    3.) Find some special motivating object she enjoys, and don't use it as a carrot, but surprise her with it when she does well. For my son, it was Pokemon cards, then sports cards, then Magic the Gathering cards. (Heck, I still surprise him with a pack of Magic cards every now and then and he's 23!) That positive association will build over time - it's one pull at least to start up that internal motivation motor.

    4.) Our son made crusades out of stuff throughout his teens. Wouldn't do the homework because he felt people shouldn't judge you on a number, and grades don't prove you know anything, you shouldn't be judged based on how you look or dress, stuff like that. So he went through phases of literal rejection of all that too - he deliberately wore dirty clothes to school, and didn't wash his hair everyday, stuff like that. You might have to roll with this kind of stuff.

    5.) Sports could keep him engaged in school, so we never took that away as a consequence of not doing homework - he might have lost interest all together if we had. Plus, it gave us something to praise up instead of always harping on what he wasn't doing. Find something you can be positive about so she doesn't just hear all negative.

    5.) and good luck - our son is energetic, funny, entertaining and has a huge heart and your daughter may be similarly inclined - if so, you can focus on all that when things seem difficult. School just isn't user-friendly for every personality type equally.
    *takes notes* Very informative post and I agree with all of it!

  7. #7
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    My brother (ISTP) used to have a similar problem in elementary school. It escalated to the point where he was given a Student Planner which he had to write all of his assignments in. At the end of the school day, his teacher had to sign that day in the planner (to confirm that all assignments were written down). When he was home, our parents had to sign that day in the planner to confirm that they had seen the planner/assignments.

    Then it was just on my parents to make sure he completed all of his assignments while he was home now that they were well informed about what exactly he had to do.
    You just brought back memories ...
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  8. #8
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    My brother (ISTP) used to have a similar problem in elementary school. It escalated to the point where he was given a Student Planner which he had to write all of his assignments in. At the end of the school day, his teacher had to sign that day in the planner (to confirm that all assignments were written down). When he was home, our parents had to sign that day in the planner to confirm that they had seen the planner/assignments.

    Then it was just on my parents to make sure he completed all of his assignments while he was home now that they were well informed about what exactly he had to do.
    My son has to do this as well!

  9. #9
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    I just talked to the guidance counselor. Her help was "well, I think the art grade will go up if she turns in the assignments. Some kids are like this" Wow. Thanks. She talked about how her kid didn't do well in math. And apparently told my daughter that story.

    I was wondering about that, what peacebaby said (how do you do the mention thing?). I tell my husband that she isn't going to do anything she doesn't decide to do.

  10. #10
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    I just talked to the guidance counselor. Her help was "well, I think the art grade will go up if she turns in the assignments. Some kids are like this"

    Wow. Thanks.
    So, if turning in assignments isn't the problem in Art, do you know what is? Have you talked with the art teacher directly?
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

    ~

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