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  1. #31
    Senior Member Doctorjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    I agree with you.
    YEAHH!!

  2. #32
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Do you want me to correct the thread title?
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
    A herring's blog
    Johari / Nohari

  3. #33
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    nope - OP guy...

    i think you misinterpret what Fe means by making connections - its not that our emotional connections to others run deeper, its that we define our emotions by those connections.

    if anything, on almost every level, i would say Fi users get the right to feel better then us, and this is no exception - we care more about looking bad where they care about doing bad, we are more inclined to judge people by their sociological cover and parade our own without any significant basis, they are more inclined to judge the person through - wait for it - empathy, by placing themselves in the shoes of the person they are talking too, rather then by his or her sociological cues and standing.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Doctorjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Do you want me to correct the thread title?
    That would be nice

  5. #35
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Big book of definitions, the dictionary:

    sym·pa·thy

    1.
    harmony of or agreement in feeling, as between persons or on the part of one person with respect to another.
    2.
    the harmony of feeling naturally existing between persons of like tastes or opinion or of congenial dispositions.
    3.
    the fact or power of sharing the feelings of another, especially in sorrow or trouble; fellow feeling, compassion, or commiseration.
    4.
    sympathies,
    a.
    feelings or impulses of compassion.
    b.
    feelings of favor, support, or loyalty: It's hard to tell where your sympathies lie.
    5.
    favorable or approving accord; favor or approval: He viewed the plan with sympathy and publicly backed it.


    em·pa·thy

    noun
    1.
    the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.
    2.
    the imaginative ascribing to an object, as a natural object or work of art, feelings or attitudes present in oneself: By means of empathy, a great painting becomes a mirror of the self.


    Look at the differences closely.
    Fi is more in line with empathy by token of re-experiencing and feeling the situation with the self. Fi will often try to reflect the situation upon the self and depending on how deep it levels itself, it may function at the meta-level of the feelings of the other individual. The first and second definition of empathy is far more in line with the definition of Fi than all the other definitions of sympathy.

    In Fe regard, the levels of emotion and feeling will fall more in line with most of the definitions of sympathy. If we look to number '3' where one shares the feelings of another in troubling times, this is often confused for seeing things in an empathetic viewpoint. It is not the same.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Doctorjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    nope - OP guy...

    i think you misinterpret what Fe means by making connections - its not that our emotional connections to others run deeper, its that we define our emotions by those connections.

    if anything, on almost every level, i would say Fi users get the right to feel better then us, and this is no exception - we care more about looking bad where they care about doing bad, we are more inclined to judge people by their sociological cover and parade our own without any significant basis, they are more inclined to judge the person through - wait for it - empathy, by placing themselves in the shoes of the person they are talking too, rather then by his or her sociological cues and standing.
    I think you are misinterpreting the definition of the word "empathy." I direct you to a previous post I have made, #27 which outlines my argument on that matter.

    Regardless of the definition of empathy, I have a quite simple argument that bypasses that completely:

    So, in Oakysage's quote, he is talking about sympathy not empathy (two similar but distinctly different words). If you assume Oakysage's post to be true, then you also assume Nerd Girl's post to be true: That Fe is more natural at empathy, and Fi more natural at sympathy.

    However, I disagree, I think that Fe is more natural at both solely based on the fact that empathy and sympathy have to do with emotions in relation to other people. Fe is extraverted thus focused on other people more. Fi is introverted thus focused on themselves more.
    Debate cordially if you wish. Please, I don't want any conflict or bad emotions

  7. #37
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    You may debate about Fe having its own empathetic stance by the definitions, but you cannot be correct in saying that Fi is in line with the definitions of sympathy.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorjuice View Post
    Great, now we can get into some critical reasoning

    So, this in argument form is:

    Being more objective entails being more rational. Being more subjective entails being more irrational. Fe is objective, Fi is subjective, therefore Fe is more rational and Fi and more irrational.

    Now let's take the same premises and apply it to Te and Ti.

    Being more objective entails being more rational. Being more subjective entails being more irrational. Te is objective, Ti is subjective, therefore Te is more rational and Ti and more irrational.

    If you believe these to be true: Being more objective entails being more rational. Being more subjective entails being more irrational.

    AND

    You believe this to be true: Te is objective and Ti subjective.

    Then this must be true: Te is more rational and Ti more irrational.
    Being more objective doesn't necessarily mean more rational.

    Jung described the thinking and feeling processes as rational and the sensing and intuition processes as irrational.

    Lenore Thomson offers a brain types model of the functions where Te/Fe are on the front-left brain and Fi/Ti are on the back-right brain. Going by that, the left side of the brain is where logical and analytical reasoning occurs. (source: http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Lat...brain_function)

    Quote Originally Posted by Oakysage View Post
    but you cannot be correct in saying that Fi is in line with the definitions of sympathy.
    Sure it is. Why not?

    Fi is a rational function and sympathy doesn't require one to put themselves in someone elses shoes like empathy does (by definition). Sympathy is a rational decision based on internal criteria/standards.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Doctorjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Being more objective doesn't necessarily mean more rational.

    Jung described the thinking and feeling processes as rational and the sensing and intuition processes as irrational.

    Lenore Thomson offers a brain types model of the functions where Te/Fe are on the front-left brain and Fi/Ti are on the back-right brain. Going by that, the left side of the brain is where logical and analytical reasoning occurs, which supports your hypothesis. (source: http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Lat...brain_function)
    Right, then you disagree with the premise that "Being more objective entails being more rational."

    I'm not sure, I'll have to think about it.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorjuice View Post
    I think you are misinterpreting the definition of the word "empathy." I direct you to a previous post I have made, #27 which outlines my argument on that matter.
    ...i read the thread before answering, and you can consider your argument answered - by me telling you that you are misinterpreting what connecting and focusing on other people and connecting to other people means, and taking it out of context.

    the best way to put it is that while both types have social and potentially deep connections with others, Fe focuses one's own feelings on the context provided by the connections with other people, where Fi focuses one's connections to others in the context of one own's feelings.

    an Fe user see's a crying person and think about how they want to appear in the context of being next to a crying person, and thus search for the appropriate response. an Fi user see's a crying person and thinks about their own pain if they had a reason to cry, and seek what they would have liked to hear.

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