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  1. #11
    Junior Member Horrible Aesthete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    tell them that god doesent exist
    Just refrain from telling them god(s) exist in the first place, and they'll never have a reason to suspect otherwise. Problem solved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i think we often overestimate the role of our minds or inherit sense of being in our values, and underestimate the role of the experiences that have made certain principles valuable to us. it is to be expected that drastic changes in how you see yourself would change your values, and parenting does that - because it changes where you see yourself.

    the little person about whom you have read just about enough psychology to recognize how horrible it would be to project that he is you, but for whom you'll experience a sense where giving to him feels better for you then giving to yourself, whose development you are more proud of then your own, and whose self-seeking becomes more valuable then your own, can very easily becomes the center of this new and barely recognizable shape of your ego and emotional feedback loops, and new values will arise to meet that new shape. the old values will be there, but will often be reformed, outdone, outmatched, and out-rewarded.

    so yes, it may very well become way more important to you that they will get a diversity of experiences every day and new ones if at all possible, even if you end up snoring at 11pm to be woken up at 6am and don't get to go out to get baked on a blend you've never smoked before and screw women you've never met before in 4 positions you've never tried before.
    Actually, it is less about not engaging in engaging in certain activities that were once enjoyable due to the responsibilities inherent in raising a child, and more about suddenly condemning such behavior out of hand. If I smoke pot for twenty years, and decide to have a child, it does not suddenly skew my perception of smoking pot; does not suddenly render it morally (and subjectively, as all morals are subjective) wrong in my world view. And I will certainly not start calling for more stringent drug laws. My views on drugs will not suddenly become conservative. I know myself enough to know this. I likewise do not suddenly become a prude simply because a child has entered the picture. If a behavior was (subjectively) legitimate before I had a child, according to my world view- whether I engage in the behavior or not- it will remain so after I have the child. I would attempt to impart my wisdom upon the child, teach it any negative (and positive) practical aspects I may have discovered about certain behaviors (specifically how to follow the eleventh commandment, and to stay safe), but I will not suddenly turn hypocrite and indiscriminately condemn behaviors I have previously enjoyed in and supported in the past. I am certainly not going to suddenly turn pro-life because I suddenly see what a 'miracle' birth is (as ubiquitous as it is). These sudden changes do not make sense to me. This all academic anyway, as my having children is not going to happen.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horrible Aesthete View Post
    Just refrain from telling them god(s) exist in the first place, and they'll never have a reason to suspect otherwise. Problem solved.



    Actually, it is less about not engaging in engaging in certain activities that were once enjoyable due to the responsibilities inherent in raising a child, and more about suddenly condemning such behavior out of hand. If I smoke pot for twenty years, and decide to have a child, it does not suddenly skew my perception of smoking pot; does not suddenly render it morally (and subjectively, as all morals are subjective) wrong in my world view. And I will certainly not start calling for more stringent drug laws. My views on drugs will not suddenly become conservative. I know myself enough to know this. I likewise do not suddenly become a prude simply because a child has entered the picture. If a behavior was (subjectively) legitimate before I had a child, according to my world view- whether I engage in the behavior or not- it will remain so after I have the child. I would attempt to impart my wisdom upon the child, teach it any negative (and positive) practical aspects I may have discovered about certain behaviors (specifically how to follow the eleventh commandment, and to stay safe), but I will not suddenly turn hypocrite and indiscriminately condemn behaviors I have previously enjoyed in and supported in the past. I am certainly not going to suddenly turn pro-life because I suddenly see what a 'miracle' birth is (as ubiquitous as it is). These sudden changes do not make sense to me. This all academic anyway, as my having children is not going to happen.
    tale a step back: all of those values are answers to questions you've asked yourself under a certain set of experiences and emotional structures of what was important. its natural that the answers will change if what's important for you will change.

    for example, your child's future might become more important then your personal liberty. so when you have a child, pot is a whole new question altogether - now your questioning whether you want him to smoke pot when his older. its no longer a question of whether he has a right to do it but whether you think its good for him.

    my answer btw


    likewise, many who would condemn killing for any reason, might experience holding their child and knowing that if anything was to threaten him in anyway killing would be exceptionally easier for them, because unlike before where it was easy to believe all life has equal value, suddenly there's no question that there is someone whose life has more value for you.

    your sister might have being fine with accepting that she might not have an afterlife, but can't accept that her child might not have an afterlife, or perhaps not strongly enough to stand her ground if her and her christian boyfriend have tried to reach a consensus. its also quite possible that in his influence she has actively changed her beliefs, which does happen to people from time to time.

  3. #13
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    It's definitely the bible belt in Tennessee. I go to my Humanities college class, and every week we go off topic and end up talking about church and God the whole class. It's like everyone assumes everyone else is a church-going Christian.

  4. #14
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    Ok so my friends from 16-24 never went to church denounced god. now that I'm 25 all of a sudden they are going to church and bible study even my gay ones believe in god and go to church, i feel like i'm the only person in my social group that doesn't believe in god nor goes to church. not that there's anything wrong with church, i just found it strange.
    Outside of them actually wanting to go, it could be for appearance. If they are in relationships, it may be their partner that wants to attend and they go along with it. They might think it makes a positive impact with co-workers or people in the community. I don't underestimate the way a person was raised and the desire to want to be part of a religious community that accepts them, which explains the more liberal churchgoing. I don't live in the south but I do live in a conservative, religious area and it's a big deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    It's like everyone assumes everyone else is a church-going Christian.
    This is rather mind boggling every time I encounter it but it's a very common assumption.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  5. #15
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    I know exactly what you mean; yeah, I suspect it's part of growing up in the South.
    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    i'm assuming they were all raised that way, maybe they were just going through a rebellious thing because they're young and rejecting what their parents did, but now that they're older they want the tradition and stability again.
    This was my best hypothesis. My friends and peers have definitely become more religious since they've graduated high school, and I guess it's the ending of their teenage "anti-parental" attitude combined with fitting into the larger scheme of adult Southern society. Maybe.

    But it is strange to see. We are usually told that history flows with progressive change in one direction...
    Last edited by Cimarron; 04-10-2012 at 06:53 AM. Reason: change "as" to "since"
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  6. #16
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    In my southern experience, most people's Christianity appears only to extend to...

    attending church (this one is optional and can be substituted with talking about how much you would like to go but have other responsibilities or a lack of time, which mandates a sympathetic response)
    throwing in the occasional obligatory God's will/praising comment
    attributing everything to God's plan, whether it works out in your favor or not

    any attempted discussion about the bible beyond the useful out of context one-liner verse is usually only met with a comment about how they should read it more than they do

    In the more rural areas the entire social life seems to derive from the church but in the more urban areas I'm convinced that a lot of people go to church purely for the social/appearance reasons whether they believe in God or not. Maybe they practice the suspension of disbelief once a week.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

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