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  1. #11
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    O_O I just put down my pet because I couldn't afford treatment for it.

    I'm a monster.
    Well, at least you didn't put down the kid.
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    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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  2. #12
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    ended with $350. this is pretty much my life.

    played it again and had $709 left over! and my kid got to play sports and be in the gifted program and everything.

  3. #13
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    More of an illustration than a game, so it achieves its purpose I guess? but a lot of the forced choices are unrealistic. Transportation/rent does not have to cost that much if you move to a city with good transit/better priced houses. And I purposefully chose expensive rent so I could walk to my work, and then was forced to repair my car?! F that. Also if it costs 30$/week to go to the laundromat (?!) why would you not just buy a used washer for 50$ (which is what my house has done every time ours breaks)? Or wash non-dirty, non-smelly clothes less often?

    The health insurance bit is pretty scary though, which is why I intend never to move to the states unless I'm essentially dragged over there.
    -end of thread-

  4. #14
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    $339 left, baby. Life isn't very fun, though.

  5. #15
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I played it twice, and it turns out the game changes constantly. So, for example, I never got the laundry bit handed to me.. or the car crash bit. But I did get a bill collector call. And my game charged me WAY more money the second time than the first. There are a lot of random scenarios thrown, so while you might not think that a particular scenario applies to you, overall these are scenarios struggling people have to deal with and they are accurate ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    A lot of these questions are asking about situations one shouldn't put themselves in if they can't afford it. Like having kids, buying a house you can't afford, having a pet. Living in an expensive city, and so on.
    Keeping in mind people don't always plan kids and things like that. The only way to 100% know that you won't have a kid is to be celibate. Birth controls fail, condoms break, shit happens. I can't automatically assume someone is a complete dumb ass because they made an unwise decision in their youth or something like that. Or made a decision thinking they were safe when they weren't.

    And moving is only easy for the rich. Moving isn't always a viable option for the poor. I'd rather live in a more expensive area with people I know, that care about me. People are a poor person's number one defense against being poor. If many poor people work together, they can do things like borrow money from each other, contribute, get a ride to work if their car breaks down, etc. Having family and friends is a resource worth paying for, even if you can't afford it. Isolating yourself in another state for a couple hundred bucks a month (and that's IF you've managed to save enough money to move there, pick up another job, and get established by your first paycheck) isn't worth it if you don't have anyone's couch to sleep on when all of your shit has to get sold because that job fell through later on.

    A lot of these options are limiting. Like the laundry for example " ask a friend or pay 30" . You can wash that shit by hand if you really want to save some money.
    Comforters are hard to wash by hand, but they CAN be technically. Sheets a bit easier to wash by hand. But I washed everything by hand for 6 months in my apartment to save the $30 and the added electric costs. Yeah, I saved the $30. I also spent about 3 hours doing everything every time I did it. That's more personal time taken out of your day, more work to be done on top of the work you already do, and more things to worry about fret over. And I didn't have a kid either when I was doing this.

    And all those kid questions, I declined on most of them. Kid doesn't need them; it's a want, same would apply to me. They can start doing that stuff when they can start earning the money for it.
    I got denied a lot of things as a kid, so I'll give you that. But it isn't easy to be so black-and-white. It killed my parents to tell us we couldn't have a birthday gift to bring to a party.. and when you're the only one showing up to those, you don't really want to go to them anymore. One of the responsibilities as a parent is to take care of your kid. There's a mentality there.. "what kind of parent am I that I'm applying my financial burdens to my kid? Am I that bad of a parent that I can't even afford $10 so they can go to a birthday party?" I know it ISN'T necessarily bad parenting to not have $10.. but the mentality is still there. I could see the looks on my parent's faces when they told me no. I didn't know what they meant back then, I thought they were just being mean. But I know it now. It hurts a lot to not be able to give to your kid.

    If you combine all of that with stress from the other scenarios, it is a recipe for depression. If a kid gets to go to a birthday party.. at least you feel at ease. "Im doing all of this for my kid. I don't care that I didn't go to a concert, or girls night out.. She got to see that birthday party though. Totally worth it."

    I had $202 left at the end.
    so where did that get you in the end? All of that denial, and sacrifice, for $200? AND you still have rent due the next day, which is a good chunk of $700ish? You're in debt the same as anyone else who didn't have the $700+ dollars, and that's if you decided to commute an hour away from home.

    It isn't such an easy black and white thing, is what the game is trying to teach. I lived as frugal as you could get, and I have most of my life to be honest (up until the past.. 3-4 years I'd say.). I don't know how everyone can just claim they'd do x and then they'd be fine. There's consequences to sacrifice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    More of an illustration than a game, so it achieves its purpose I guess? but a lot of the forced choices are unrealistic. Transportation/rent does not have to cost that much if you move to a city with good transit/better priced houses. And I purposefully chose expensive rent so I could walk to my work, and then was forced to repair my car?! F that.
    So what if the car isn't yours that you needed to repair? Maybe it is your mothers or fathers, and you KNOW that they'll lose everything if they don't get to work with a car, whereas you'll probably just be in debt a few months? The scenario doesnt need to be directly apply to you and how you do things for it to work still.

    Plus, not all cities have good commuting. In houston, where I live, cars are pretty mandatory. Sure, you can ride a bus, bit it'll take you 3-5 hours round trip, they're unreliable so the possibility of being late is almost guaranteed on more than one occasion, and there's miles of walking just to get to the first bus stop. That's a good 5-7 hours a day just commuting to work. Just commuting.

    Also if it costs 30$/week to go to the laundromat (?!) why would you not just buy a used washer for 50$ (which is what my house has done every time ours breaks)? Or wash non-dirty, non-smelly clothes less often?
    You probably spend around the same amount of money all things considered. Washers are a convenience. They save time, not money. Cheap washers use a lot of water and electricity. So you have to factor those into the equation. Our washer, before we got an HE one, costed us about that much a month without the cost of the washer involved. So $50-100 start up fee, and then $15-30 a month depending on how much laundry we did.

    The health insurance bit is pretty scary though, which is why I intend never to move to the states unless I'm essentially dragged over there.
    It is. I'm lucky in that the army offers me cheap health insurance, but my sister's looking at $200 a month just for her and her son. And thats through a military-affiliated civilian membership. You get what you pay for with health insurance here, so you can get health insurance for as low as $60-70 a month per person... but you won't get shit for it. It's only really good for people who never ever need to go to the doctor.
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  6. #16
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    So what if the car isn't yours that you needed to repair? Maybe it is your mothers or fathers, and you KNOW that they'll lose everything if they don't get to work with a car, whereas you'll probably just be in debt a few months? The scenario doesnt need to be directly apply to you and how you do things for it to work still.
    I won't put myself in debt to give someone else money, even if they "need" it (unless it's a life or death kind of thing). That's just a bad idea - what will happen the next time they come running to you for help, and you've weakened your own financial position?

    Plus, not all cities have good commuting. In houston, where I live, cars are pretty mandatory. Sure, you can ride a bus, bit it'll take you 3-5 hours round trip, they're unreliable so the possibility of being late is almost guaranteed on more than one occasion, and there's miles of walking just to get to the first bus stop. That's a good 5-7 hours a day just commuting to work. Just commuting.
    Yeah, hence moving to a different city.

    You probably spend around the same amount of money all things considered. Washers are a convenience. They save time, not money. Cheap washers use a lot of water and electricity. So you have to factor those into the equation. Our washer, before we got an HE one, costed us about that much a month without the cost of the washer involved. So $50-100 start up fee, and then $15-30 a month depending on how much laundry we did.
    Huh, I guess water and electricity are more expensive there. I doubt our whole water bill is that much every month, including showers, and I don't think washers use that much electricity (dryers yes, but you can air dry pretty easily). I'm guessing water is (much?) more expensive in the drier states, though.

    Anyway my point wasn't to argue that being poor doesn't suck, clearly it does, but that there are more options than that in real life - it's not quite so "woe is me, I'm completely helpless" as the game portrays, although it can definitely be frustrating, heartbreaking, depressing, etc.
    -end of thread-

  7. #17
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I won't put myself in debt to give someone else money, even if they "need" it (unless it's a life or death kind of thing). That's just a bad idea - what will happen the next time they come running to you for help, and you've weakened your own financial position?
    When its family you sort of make those kind of decisions. My parents put themselves in debt because they needed to afford 4 kids. They had no intentions of having 4 kids, for sure.. but they ended up with them. You help out when you can, and take the blows as they come. Sometimes those rock-and-hard-place situations come up, especially in family life. If you're lucky enough to be working class, you can be prepared for them if you play your cards right and get educated on financial steps to success. Not everyone is afforded that luxury though. I had a guy STEAL my car trying to get to work on time. He intended on bringing it back, truly he did.. he didnt want my car, his just had trouble starting in the winter and this particular day had been too chilly and he couldnt make his car work. I was gone, so he decided to just take my keys and go to work in it. He didn't expect my car to get totaled when he took it.

    Yeah, hence moving to a different city.
    Again, not so easy. How many options did you choose where you asked a friend/relative to give you a ride, pay for something, etc? It's hard to get support from others in a new place. Its a risk to move. AND it's expensive. Even if the in the LONG run its cheaper, a lot of poor people don't have the option of long-run terms. You could move if you got a better job in another state, with more pay, benefits, and even better hours and stability promised via a contract or something.. But can you afford the move itself? the deposits for apartments and set-up fees for electricity and water, the change in climate (a new wardrobe for snow? Or a wardrobe suited for desert weather?), the clothing you may need for this new job (a desk job requires professional attire), and that's not counting moving to an area that may be lower in rent and such, but higher in other costs of living. (Example: people in New York pay more rent than Houston, by far.. but Moving to Houston means buying a car. You didn't save TOO much money making that move including gas costs, insurance, and the car itself, even if it is a cheap one.)

    And then, even if you DO move.. You have to consider the kid. If you take the risk, can you afford to recover from it? Can you move BACK if you need to? Will your kid be stable? All of that money into those deposits and such.. what if the job in the other state falls through? You're laid off a year later, in an unfamiliar place, with none of the friends you had before that helped you because you've known them for 10+ years.

    Just saying moving isn't a very viable option for poor people. If you're worried about a BIRTHDAY present for crying out loud, you definitely don't have the money to move.

    Huh, I guess water and electricity are more expensive there. I doubt our whole water bill is that much every month, including showers, and I don't think washers use that much electricity (dryers yes, but you can air dry pretty easily). I'm guessing water is (much?) more expensive in the drier states, though.
    Maybe I worded that poorly. Splitting the cost of the washer up, even we went with your $50 range. No one buys a washer and not a dryer. It just doesn't make much sense to hand dry everything after you spent the time getting a washer. So lets say $100 buys you the set. Dryers last longer, so no biggie... Soap still costing $.50 a load or somewhere therein, $1 a load for bleach and using a static liner at $.50 a month for a box.. If you have 3 loads of laundry (colors, whites, and darks for you and your kid) that's $4 for washing each week if you only wash once a week. Water bill probably gets bumped up about $5-10 depending on where you live (desert will cost more, droughts also affect it), that's a median of $23 a month. Add in about $5-10 for electricity over the month, and that's $30 right there, without the cost of the washer and dryer. Its the same price as a laundry mat entirely (the cost of the electricity and water are replaced with the cost of using the units), but you have to add in finding something for that price, paying for it, and hoping it doesn't break otherwise you were out $100 that could have been spent on more laundry down the road.

    Anyway my point wasn't to argue that being poor doesn't suck, clearly it does, but that there are more options than that in real life - it's not quite so "woe is me, I'm completely helpless" as the game portrays, although it can definitely be frustrating, heartbreaking, depressing, etc.
    :/ I wasn't really intending on arguing either.. But I think people are nit-picking the situations as if they don't really occur, or that they're unreasonable ones that are easily preventable. They really aren't unreasonable. Maybe circumstances give you cheaper laundry by far. Or maybe you can borrow someone else's laundry facilities for $5-10 thrown at them for their generosity here and there. Or maybe you exchange and clean their house some and do their laundry too. I dunno. But that $30 usually gets put somewhere else for some other event that happens that you can't help. it isn't the laundry that's important.. its the "I need this. and its a small amount of money, but its big to me right now." concept.
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  8. #18
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    When its family you sort of make those kind of decisions. My parents put themselves in debt because they needed to afford 4 kids. They had no intentions of having 4 kids, for sure.. but they ended up with them. You help out when you can, and take the blows as they come. Sometimes those rock-and-hard-place situations come up, especially in family life. If you're lucky enough to be working class, you can be prepared for them if you play your cards right and get educated on financial steps to success. Not everyone is afforded that luxury though. I had a guy STEAL my car trying to get to work on time. He intended on bringing it back, truly he did.. he didnt want my car, his just had trouble starting in the winter and this particular day had been too chilly and he couldnt make his car work. I was gone, so he decided to just take my keys and go to work in it. He didn't expect my car to get totaled when he took it.
    My family was dumb enough to have 4 kids on one mediocre salary (and poor financial management) too. I just prefer not to compound their errors by dragging myself down with them and pouring my money into that bottomless sink. They'll always stay poor, and I would too if I decided to support them, but I am not rich enough to do that without compromising my life. Some people feel obligated to love and support someone because you happened to be born related to them. I don't.

    And then, even if you DO move.. You have to consider the kid. If you take the risk, can you afford to recover from it? Can you move BACK if you need to? Will your kid be stable? All of that money into those deposits and such.. what if the job in the other state falls through? You're laid off a year later, in an unfamiliar place, with none of the friends you had before that helped you because you've known them for 10+ years.
    Yeah....this is why you don't have kids you can't afford. I know it would never happen because it would be too unpopular, but the world would be a far, far better place if you needed a license to have children. Too many people are seemingly incapable or unwilling to think ahead.

    Maybe I worded that poorly. Splitting the cost of the washer up, even we went with your $50 range. No one buys a washer and not a dryer. It just doesn't make much sense to hand dry everything after you spent the time getting a washer. So lets say $100 buys you the set. Dryers last longer, so no biggie... Soap still costing $.50 a load or somewhere therein, $1 a load for bleach and using a static liner at $.50 a month for a box.. If you have 3 loads of laundry (colors, whites, and darks for you and your kid) that's $4 for washing each week if you only wash once a week. Water bill probably gets bumped up about $5-10 depending on where you live (desert will cost more, droughts also affect it), that's a median of $23 a month. Add in about $5-10 for electricity over the month, and that's $30 right there, without the cost of the washer and dryer. Its the same price as a laundry mat entirely (the cost of the electricity and water are replaced with the cost of using the units), but you have to add in finding something for that price, paying for it, and hoping it doesn't break otherwise you were out $100 that could have been spent on more laundry down the road.
    yeah, I guess it's just different depending where you live. I'd ballpark water and electricity as well under a few bucks/load (in our house of 7 people, we do loads multiple times a day and we don't have a crazy water or elec bill), a 4$ jug of soap lasts me months and months, I don't use dryer sheets, and bleach is both completely unnecessary and also very cheap - a few bucks will buy you a lifetime supply in a giant jug (I do maybe 2 loads/month). And if I had to, I could wash clothes in my bathtub with a few cents' worth of soap and let them drip dry. It's really not that hard for non-filthy clothes, although it is a pain in the ass. So 30$/mth just seems ludicrous to me. Sounds like it is much more expensive in some areas, for whatever reasons.
    -end of thread-

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post


    Keeping in mind people don't always plan kids and things like that. The only way to 100% know that you won't have a kid is to be celibate. Birth controls fail, condoms break, shit happens. I can't automatically assume someone is a complete dumb ass because they made an unwise decision in their youth or something like that. Or made a decision thinking they were safe when they weren't.
    Yeah, lets hope that they limit themselves to 1 child. It is usually the poor families that tend to spawn young..

    And moving is only easy for the rich. Moving isn't always a viable option for the poor. I'd rather live in a more expensive area with people I know, that care about me. People are a poor person's number one defense against being poor. If many poor people work together, they can do things like borrow money from each other, contribute, get a ride to work if their car breaks down, etc. Having family and friends is a resource worth paying for, even if you can't afford it. Isolating yourself in another state for a couple hundred bucks a month (and that's IF you've managed to save enough money to move there, pick up another job, and get established by your first paycheck) isn't worth it if you don't have anyone's couch to sleep on when all of your shit has to get sold because that job fell through later on.
    Yup, you're probably right there.


    Comforters are hard to wash by hand, but they CAN be technically. Sheets a bit easier to wash by hand. But I washed everything by hand for 6 months in my apartment to save the $30 and the added electric costs. Yeah, I saved the $30. I also spent about 3 hours doing everything every time I did it. That's more personal time taken out of your day, more work to be done on top of the work you already do, and more things to worry about fret over. And I didn't have a kid either when I was doing this.
    It doesn't take that much time. When ever I visited family in iraq, I always helped them wash their laundry, and they did it the old way: By hand. It really doesn't take up that much time/resources. And since in a lot of these questions pride is the only thing keeping people from "asking a friend", I'm sure that they're willing to spend those free hours doing the laundry and spending those 30 dollars on food for them and their kid.


    I got denied a lot of things as a kid, so I'll give you that. But it isn't easy to be so black-and-white. It killed my parents to tell us we couldn't have a birthday gift to bring to a party.. and when you're the only one showing up to those, you don't really want to go to them anymore. One of the responsibilities as a parent is to take care of your kid. There's a mentality there.. "what kind of parent am I that I'm applying my financial burdens to my kid? Am I that bad of a parent that I can't even afford $10 so they can go to a birthday party?" I know it ISN'T necessarily bad parenting to not have $10.. but the mentality is still there. I could see the looks on my parent's faces when they told me no. I didn't know what they meant back then, I thought they were just being mean. But I know it now. It hurts a lot to not be able to give to your kid.
    My parents were fine off, and I got denied every single thing from that list. It didn't kill my parents, or I think them mean. I didn't understand it then, nor did I make a big fuss. I wouldn't do the same thing, but if I was financially unstable, they'll grow up and get over it; maybe it will even be a motivating factor for their ambition.

    If you combine all of that with stress from the other scenarios, it is a recipe for depression. If a kid gets to go to a birthday party.. at least you feel at ease. "Im doing all of this for my kid. I don't care that I didn't go to a concert, or girls night out.. She got to see that birthday party though. Totally worth it."
    I disagree, we obviously see priorities different. I wouldn't allow it. S/he can hang out with her/his friend outside of a birthday party, or go without a gift. Socializing is socializing, no need to show he/r something else s/he can't have. Frivolous spending.

    so where did that get you in the end? All of that denial, and sacrifice, for $200? AND you still have rent due the next day, which is a good chunk of $700ish? You're in debt the same as anyone else who didn't have the $700+ dollars, and that's if you decided to commute an hour away from home.
    I think in a real life scenario, it would be different for a lot of us, obviously some are willing to make harder decisions, although they also probably cause a less exciting childhood for the kid. 200$ is definitely better than 5 in terms of what it can get you to keep you surviving, rather than indulging.

    It isn't such an easy black and white thing, is what the game is trying to teach. I lived as frugal as you could get, and I have most of my life to be honest (up until the past.. 3-4 years I'd say.). I don't know how everyone can just claim they'd do x and then they'd be fine. There's consequences to sacrifice.
    I think the scariest part was the health insurance. JESUS is it expensive. It is definitely not black and white, you have to keep thinking of the consequences of your decisions, esp when they're legal. However, I think the ultimate goal is to survive; this little thing reminded me of Shameless.
    To be fair, if I had to life like that EVERY month, I would probably set a bank on fire.

  10. #20
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    ....
    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    ...obviously some are willing to make harder decisions, although they also probably cause a less exciting childhood for the kid...
    the point of all of this is that these people don't think and feel this way. I do.. and the fact that I emerged from being suddenly stuck with an apartment of my own instead of splitting half of all the bills, with a car stolen and needing to buy a new one on the fly, and working 3 jobs while maintaining school full time proves that is do-able, and sacrifices can be made. People do it all the time. But not everyone's priorities are money. Money is a very depressing thing for many people.. And even though money isn't depressing for me, and not being debt is a major motivator and driver for me, I was STILL very depressed. I was isolated--.. I was on the opposite side of town with no friends for family near me, so even if I had the time I couldn't go see them. (And I had no kid, so I was free to come and go and work 3 jobs as I pleased.) I had trouble with food (my neighbor caught on to my weight loss and started feeding me.. she never asked me, she just started offering food. I suppose it's hard to show restraint, because even though I thought I attempted it when I politely agreed to take the food, it started coming on a daily basis after that... I had food of my own. But boiled rice and free soy sauce packets and dried beans soaked and boiled in water are hardly what I'd call a meal.. and that was every day for two meals a day.) and I was exhausted and depressed. I was seriously depressed.

    The point of it all to show that the quality of life is horrible for people who have to live like this, and that's why they should be helped. People shouldn't be in a depression, never seeing or doing anything, or letting their children experience things just because they're poor. You don't know why they're poor, or why they're there in that situation.. if it's temporary or not.

    I think too many people just shrug off poverty as if poverty is the result of people making bad decisions and being lazy and never bothering to correct them. Poverty isn't fixed with a few sacrifices and wise decisions. If it were that easy, I doubt it'd exist at all by now. It's a very complex subject, and the game is trying to convey that in overly simplistic terms by trying to put you in someone's shoes. It isn't "I wouldnt have gotten there." I think almost everyone here said "Well I wouldnt have done that, so no problems there."
    I told myself I'd never put myself in a situation I couldn't handle. But I couldn't handle that apartment. I mean.. I did. but truthfully, if I had been someone else, Id have been like "Pfft. She shouldn't have ever trusted that dude and moved in with him. Stupid. She didn't know if she could afford it if he decided to leave it." Standing back and looking is much easier than being in it. At the time it WAS the financially sound decision to make. It was the best option. But shit happens. And a good decision turned into a horrible one and there was nothing I could do about it but ride it out until my situation changed for the better. It was pure luck they sent me off to war... And the worst part is, I think it is *lucky* that I got to go to war when I did. What kind of situation is that where going off to risk your life is a great thing?

    When you're the one being judged and being looked at by others, it colors your lenses a bit. I have a huge heart for poverty because I lived it and I was there of my own doing. No one forced me to have that apartment. I'm glad my father made the decisions he made.. they weren't always the best financially ('You know what. Screw that. Im going to be late on it no matter what. The payment on the fridge can just wait, they won't take it away, they'll just send it to a bill collector and I'm tired of my kids not getting fresh vegetables for dinner and not getting fruits for snacks.' for an example.) but he also never took up habits like drinking, or caught cases of depression or anxiety attacks, or things like that. He was healthy, and we were healthy..

    I think ya'll are underestimating the importance of some of the things you scratched off the list all for the sake of money, is all I'm saying.
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