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Thread: J- love

  1. #31
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    That reminds me of that SG:U episode yesterday, when they met a new alien race and started firing immediantly. And the scientist asked: why the heck are we firing ? And the SJ commander replied: cause we can
    I have more reason than that.

  2. #32
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I have more reason than that.
    touche
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Actually no. We're deluding ourselves by thinking judgment expressed = judgment applied.
    Could you expand on this?

    What is the difference between judgment expressed and judgment implied?

  4. #34
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    If you're using Socionics' definition, yes.

    But if you're using MBTI's no.

    I think they both serve their purpose.

    I actually like using both, to get more accurate 5-letter representation:

    ENTJj ENFJj
    INTJp INFJp
    INTPj INFPj
    ENTPp ENFPp

    ESTJj ESFJj
    ISTJp ISFJp
    ISTPj ISFPj
    ESTPp ESFPp


    Those with "Jj" definitely regularly seem to be the most "Jish" of the types, and those with "Pp" definitely seem to the most "Pish".

    And those with "Jp" or "Pj" tend to fall somewhere in between these other two groups.

    And yes, I believe your function order in MBTI ought be the same as your function order in Socionics.

    I don't care if the description sounds different from one system to the other, there's myriad reasons why that could be the case.

    You don't magically switch from having FiNe be your foremost cognition style to NiFe -- that makes no sense.

    They're both built off Jung, and, as such, the functions in each system should be pointing to the same underlying reality.

    Perhaps the author(s) writing a description for Socionics just has a bit of different take on some functions, for whatever reason(s).



    I've been wondering this myself, tbh...

    I could see aux Se making an ISFP much more quick to judge than the aux Ne of an INFP.
    Both MBTI and Socionics depart from Jung in some significant ways. I've said this enough times now, but Myers went out of her way to suggest to not even read Jung, in order for her system to work. It's in the first few pages of Gifts Differing. It's her own system, loosely built on Jung. She thought she had something new to add.

    As for Socionics Ijs (Fi and Ti dominants) - they're the most rigid "J" types imaginable. There's no way around it. The Socionics ISj is not an Fi or Ti dom ISFP or ISTP. They're not even necessarily MBTI ISJ really. The reason being is that Se takes on a lot of things MBTI would ascribe to Te instead. It deals with power structures, heirarchy, force, volition, etc.. They don't place any priority on hedonism or personal comfort, like Jung wrote about Se. The types that fit that bill are the Si dominants in Socionics.

  5. #35
    Anew Leaf
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    I @Giggly and that's all that matters.

  6. #36
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    I @Giggly and that's all that matters.

    Edit: double post so double the love.

  7. #37
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Well, now you've made me blush.

    Thank you @Saturned

  8. #38
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia_infp View Post
    Surely the optimal thing to do would be to take a quick second to agree on a common vocabulary.
    I am reminded of one Calvin and Hobbes where Calvin is talking about how words can change over time. He cites "access" as an example of a word that got verbed. He goes on to say that verbing weirds language, and Hobbes speculates that language will become an impediment to understanding.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  9. #39
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Could you expand on this?

    What is the difference between judgment expressed and judgment implied?
    I was referring to judgment expressed being different than judgement applied. If you look at some of the different types, I think you can see how this plays out:

    Te doms (ENTJ, ESTJ) - They clearly leap to judgments and they express those judgments to everyone around them

    Ni doms (INFJ, INTJ) - They might communicate an opinion and come across very forcefully in that opinion (because the extraverted function is a judging function) but inside their minds, they are constantly evaluating all of the information that's coming in and navigating towards a point of view. That point of view changes. It isn't static. They are dominant perceivers.

    Fi doms - As it relates to their Fi values, these are very strongly held. It's the "center" of them so to speak. I once knew an ISFP very well. On the outside, she appeared quite flexible, relaxed and would just go with the flow. You couldn't get her to express an opinion. Question: "Where do you want to go to dinner?" Answer "I don't know". She refuses to pick a place. It was one of many cases where I would ask her what she thought about something and she would just say, "Well, I don't know." However, in other ways, she was not particularly flexible. There were a number of things where no amount of logic or persuasion could be used to get this person to change their mind. It's as if there were certain principles she had that simply were not open to change. She wasn't open to new information. I recall the line, "what's good enough for my parents is good enough for me." What? It used to drive me batty - this combination of indecisiveness on the one hand and inflexibility on the other - in an opposite way to how I seemed to think.

    So, the bottom line is that I think judginess relates to the dominant function and whether or not the function is extroverted or introverted. If a person has a dominant extraverted judging function then they are judgey and sound judgey. If they have a dominant introverted perceiving function and an auxiliary extroverted judging function then they will sound judgey abut are far less so than they appear to be on the outside. If they have a dominant introverted judging function and an extraverted perceiving function then they will appear to not be so judgey on the outside but will be much more judgey on the inside. Finally, if they have a dominant extroverted perceiving function then they will not come across so judgey and won't be so judgey. Anyway, that's what I think.

    Also, I know "judgey" is not actually a word.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  10. #40
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    I'm going to have the word "judgey" stuck in my head all day tomorrow.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

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