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Thread: J- love

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I'm sorry to dissapoint but though we are Js and not Ps, actually if you look at function order, it tells a different story.

    ISFJ, ISTJ, INTJ, INFJ - We're all dominant perceivers (Si or Ni) - not judgers.

    INFP, ISFP, INTP, ISTP - Their dominant function is a judging function (Fi or Ti).

    So to say someone who ends with a "J" is the judging kind is inaccurate.
    If you're using Socionics' definition, yes.

    But if you're using MBTI's no.

    I think they both serve their purpose.

    I actually like using both, to get more accurate 5-letter representation:

    ENTJj ENFJj
    INTJp INFJp
    INTPj INFPj
    ENTPp ENFPp

    ESTJj ESFJj
    ISTJp ISFJp
    ISTPj ISFPj
    ESTPp ESFPp


    Those with "Jj" definitely regularly seem to be the most "Jish" of the types, and those with "Pp" definitely seem to the most "Pish".

    And those with "Jp" or "Pj" tend to fall somewhere in between these other two groups.

    And yes, I believe your function order in MBTI ought be the same as your function order in Socionics.

    I don't care if the description sounds different from one system to the other, there's myriad reasons why that could be the case.

    You don't magically switch from having FiNe be your foremost cognition style to NiFe -- that makes no sense.

    They're both built off Jung, and, as such, the functions in each system should be pointing to the same underlying reality.

    Perhaps the author(s) writing a description for Socionics just has a bit of different take on some functions, for whatever reason(s).

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Ask an ISFP how long it takes to make their mind up about someone after meeting them. They'll probably say something like 20 seconds.
    I don't know about ISFP, but as an INFP, I can certainly say that isn't true. I'm deliberate and indecisive as hell. I just see all the possibilities and can't decide which one is best (usually).
    I've been wondering this myself, tbh...

    I could see aux Se making an ISFP much more quick to judge than the aux Ne of an INFP.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post

    I've been wondering this myself, tbh...

    I could see aux Se making an ISFP much more quick to judge than the aux Ne of an INFP.
    I think they are just likely to pick up on different information.

    It also depends on what is meant by “judging” the person. If a quick, diffuse sense, grasp, or feeling about the person is what is meant, that happens very fast for me, while I still remain open to new information.

    I think in terms of the ability/speed/facility with which to “judge,” it depends on several factors, two of which are:

    1. How involved the Fi/Te are in steering the Ne ship and processing the information.
    2. The person’s age/place in general type development (Hazashin is younger, and likely to still be heavily involved with his aux Ne, for example.)

    Oh - and thank God for Js.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia_infp View Post
    I think they are just likely to pick up on different information.
    I think that's part of it.

    But I also think they'll tend to just trust the information they perceive more at face value.

    I could see aux Ne facilitating an approach in which multiple interpretive possibilities lead to slower/lesser judgment.

    Quote Originally Posted by mia_infp View Post
    It also depends on what is meant by “judging” the person.
    The sliding signifier strikes again.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I think that's part of it.

    But I also think they'll tend to just trust the information they perceive more at face value.

    I could see aux Ne facilitating an approach in which multiple interpretive possibilities lead to slower/lesser judgment.
    This is certainly possible. I suppose it would directly have to do with how tuned in and comfortable/developed with their own functions they were. I have a great relationship with my Ne, enjoy using it and exercising it and trust the information it provides. I also trust my Fi/Te to know what to do with it - i.e. not let it "hang around" up in the air unused and integrated. This is most likely a bad analogy - bear with me - but when information is coming in via Ne from every angle, it feels like the game Plinko, where no matter where the little Ne chip of information is dropped in, the Fi/Te "prongs" will guide it into the appropriate slot - only this is happening at a break-neck pace all the time with a myriad of things at once, like a computer screen that is sorting lines of data.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    The sliding signifier strikes again.
    Surely the optimal thing to do would be to take a quick second to agree on a common vocabulary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mia_infp View Post
    Surely the optimal thing to do would be to take a quick second to agree on a common vocabulary.
    Ehh...

    Not really interested enough in the topic.

  6. #26
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    If you're using Socionics' definition, yes.

    But if you're using MBTI's no.

    I think they both serve their purpose.

    I actually like using both, to get more accurate 5-letter representation:

    ENTJj ENFJj
    INTJp INFJp
    INTPj INFPj
    ENTPp ENFPp

    ESTJj ESFJj
    ISTJp ISFJp
    ISTPj ISFPj
    ESTPp ESFPp


    Those with "Jj" definitely regularly seem to be the most "Jish" of the types, and those with "Pp" definitely seem to the most "Pish".

    And those with "Jp" or "Pj" tend to fall somewhere in between these other two groups.

    And yes, I believe your function order in MBTI ought be the same as your function order in Socionics.

    I don't care if the description sounds different from one system to the other, there's myriad reasons why that could be the case.

    You don't magically switch from having FiNe be your foremost cognition style to NiFe -- that makes no sense.

    They're both built off Jung, and, as such, the functions in each system should be pointing to the same underlying reality.

    Perhaps the author(s) writing a description for Socionics just has a bit of different take on some functions, for whatever reason(s).



    I've been wondering this myself, tbh...

    I could see aux Se making an ISFP much more quick to judge than the aux Ne of an INFP.
    Actually no. We're deluding ourselves by thinking judgment expressed = judgment applied.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  7. #27
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I love Js (sorry highlander, you make some great points but I still think Js are a lot less flaky... ).

    And I love the title of this thread!!
    Yeah I'm really loving the J's too these days.

  8. #28
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Judgers rock the house!

    For real.

    I cant love without a reason.

    So.. where is it ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #29
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I cant love without a reason.

    So.. where is it ?
    I can't complain. If you don't love them, that means more of them for me.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I can't complain. If you don't love them, that means more of them for me.
    That reminds me of that SG:U episode yesterday, when they met a new alien race and started firing immediantly. And the scientist asked: why the heck are we firing ? And the SJ commander replied: cause we can
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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