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Thread: Gas Prices

  1. #31
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Converting to new forms of living is the best method to sustain industry and create new one. Innovation is the constant fuel to industry. This process is often painful and is a long road and the margins are often quite slim, but its the fun you have all the way that keeps you alive. The next thing that should come after an innovation in industry is an innovation of society and that one often is the more complex process.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #32
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Lold at bold.

    Dont live in places where you cant afford to live in.

    You should research this from bit wider point of view and stop crying about poor people living in places they cant afford to live in, you would soon notice that its not me whos the ignorant one.

    I don't think you have a very good grasp on the situation....it's not just poor people I'm talking about, it's people who will become poor if gas prices rise to 2x their current levels.

    As for people who are poor, they are limited in their choices, as far as where they live and usually remain poor because they do what you just recommended. They work in the area they live because they cannot afford a vehicle that would increase their options. They eat food that is shipped into their local areas using oil... do you understand how food prices go up when the cost of fuel goes up? It's true that nearly half of us use our welfare system to supplement food purchases, but that's just a drain on resources. Do you think we should adopt a system of rationing all food, energy, other resources?

    Even if you consider the people who do walk or bike to work or use energy efficient cars or public transportation, it still affects them. Food prices will go up for everyone, not just people who commute, bus fare will go up for everyone who uses them, more people will be riding buses if gas prices go up, which means lower productivity, less gdp, peopel who bike to work will pay more for their tires and inner tubes, people who walk to work will pay more for their shoes, etc, etc.

    I'm all about changing the way our economy works, reducing consumption, converting to renewable energy sources, but there will be too many negative consequences with a national top-down approach. I like entropie's post, and think it's inspiring. There are small movements like that in my own country but it's yet to catch on. If you have any useful suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  3. #33
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    I don't think you have a very good grasp on the situation....it's not just poor people I'm talking about, it's people who will become poor if gas prices rise to 2x their current levels.

    As for people who are poor, they are limited in their choices, as far as where they live and usually remain poor because they do what you just recommended. They work in the area they live because they cannot afford a vehicle that would increase their options. They eat food that is shipped into their local areas using oil... do you understand how food prices go up when the cost of fuel goes up? It's true that nearly half of us use our welfare system to supplement food purchases, but that's just a drain on resources. Do you think we should adopt a system of rationing all food, energy, other resources?

    Even if you consider the people who do walk or bike to work or use energy efficient cars or public transportation, it still affects them. Food prices will go up for everyone, not just people who commute, bus fare will go up for everyone who uses them, more people will be riding buses if gas prices go up, which means lower productivity, less gdp, peopel who bike to work will pay more for their tires and inner tubes, people who walk to work will pay more for their shoes, etc, etc.

    I'm all about changing the way our economy works, reducing consumption, converting to renewable energy sources, but there will be too many negative consequences with a national top-down approach. I like entropie's post, and think it's inspiring. There are small movements like that in my own country but it's yet to catch on. If you have any useful suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them.
    If you would had read further, you would realize that my suggestion was raising taxes for the public, while not raising them for corporations in order to keep the price of food from raising. But you were too busy going on your emo rant that you missed it, its also quite amusing that you are calling me the ignorant one .

    And btw, if someone wont be able to afford spending few extra bucks on gasoline that they use to get to work, they are poor, and they are living in am area that they cant afford to live in, since they need to use a car to get to work. It would be better for everyone if these people would start thinking in bit wider perspective, not only the changing those stupid personal habits that they are stuck in, but also about the effects the sort of living has to nature.

    Finland has the double cost of gasoline compared to usa, and people dont have any problems with it. And its not all that uncommon to live 50 miles away from the work. My teacher in vocational school had that distance to work and teachers dont make all that much money..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  4. #34
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Gas prices are a good opportunity to see how Americans view the president. They got mad at G.W. for rising gas prices and they're getting mad Obama for rising gas prices. This all comes down to the fact that at least a plurality, but probably a majority of Americans believe that the president is a sorcerer who deliberately conjures every event and condition in the USA.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    If you would had read further, you would realize that my suggestion was raising taxes for the public, while not raising them for corporations in order to keep the price of food from raising. But you were too busy going on your emo rant that you missed it, its also quite amusing that you are calling me the ignorant one .

    And btw, if someone wont be able to afford spending few extra bucks on gasoline that they use to get to work, they are poor, and they are living in am area that they cant afford to live in, since they need to use a car to get to work. It would be better for everyone if these people would start thinking in bit wider perspective, not only the changing those stupid personal habits that they are stuck in, but also about the effects the sort of living has to nature.

    Finland has the double cost of gasoline compared to usa, and people dont have any problems with it. And its not all that uncommon to live 50 miles away from the work. My teacher in vocational school had that distance to work and teachers dont make all that much money..
    I think I understand which POV you're coming from, but based on your comments about emoing, poor people and whining, I think you're still unaware of mine. I'll have a few minutes in the near future to respond to this post, because at some point I'll have absolutely nothing better to do.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  6. #36
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    I think I understand which POV you're coming from, but based on your comments about emoing, poor people and whining, I think you're still unaware of mine. I'll have a few minutes in the near future to respond to this post, because at some point I'll have absolutely nothing better to do.
    Dont bother. Nothing will change to the right way anyways, the price of gasoline will raise and rest of the world will need to start feeding the starving americans
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  7. #37
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Gas prices are a good opportunity to see how Americans view the president. They got mad at G.W. for rising gas prices and they're getting mad Obama for rising gas prices. This all comes down to the fact that at least a plurality, but probably a majority of Americans believe that the president is a sorcerer who deliberately conjures every event and condition in the USA.
    Hehe. We once had a politician who wanted a countrywide top speed for the Autobahn of 75 mph. he was never seen again, magic...
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #38
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    It's true that nearly half of us use our welfare system to supplement food purchases
    Point of order... the percentage is not nearly that high.

    Number Of Americans On Food Stamps Hits Another High Years After Recession's End

    USDA data released this week shows that the number of Americans receiving food aid from the Supplemental Nutrional Assistance Program (SNAP) hit another all-time high in August. 45.8 million people -- almost 15% of the country -- were enrolled in the program, which replaced Food Stamps in 2008.
    And btw, if someone wont be able to afford spending few extra bucks on gasoline that they use to get to work, they are poor, and they are living in am area that they cant afford to live in, since they need to use a car to get to work. It would be better for everyone if these people would start thinking in bit wider perspective, not only the changing those stupid personal habits that they are stuck in, but also about the effects the sort of living has to nature.
    You have no idea what you are talking about.

    Finland has the double cost of gasoline compared to usa, and people dont have any problems with it. And its not all that uncommon to live 50 miles away from the work. My teacher in vocational school had that distance to work and teachers dont make all that much money..
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Finland
    Finland's total area is 337,030 km2 (130,128 sq mi).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geograp..._United_States
    total area of the US was listed as...the United Nations Statistics Division gives 9,629,091 km2(3,717,813 sq mi)
    The US is 28.5 times the size of Finland.

    This isn't just about gas to get to work, it's about the gas to get every product we use to where we live.

    And increase in gas prices hits US citizens harder than it does the citizens of any other nation on Earth.

    We are more reliant on imported products, and the ability to ship those products vast distances across our nation than anywhere else.

    It's easy to tout European models of civil design, but it's another thing entirely to be able to employ those models in a cost effective manner in a vastly different and vastly larger country.

  9. #39
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The US is 28.5 times the size of Finland.

    This isn't just about gas to get to work, it's about the gas to get every product we use to where we live.

    And increase in gas prices hits US citizens harder than it does the citizens of any other nation on Earth.

    We are more reliant on imported products, and the ability to ship those products vast distances across our nation than anywhere else.

    It's easy to tout European models of civil design, but it's another thing entirely to be able to employ those models in a cost effective manner in a vastly different and vastly larger country.
    But thats no excuse for not investing in renewable energy and getting rid of atomic energy. Regarding energy consumption I hardly doubt any country could beat the industrial consumption of mine, still we try to handle it efficient, which means we dont use light bulbs to light every part of our houses, nor do we need air conditioning in every system. And we have a subtropic climate, summers are 100 degrees @ 60% humidity, which is cruel.

    This discussion shouldnt be so much about special topics. Everybody has their own problem and needs to find solutions that are fitting. This discussion should be about a general new way of thinking. A well to wheel and back to well mentality, creating industrial product circles and not spending $1500 on a new Iphone every 3 months and letting the old electronic waste be burnt by africans in an open field who think they can make money with the spare metal parts...
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #40
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    But thats no excuse for not investing in renewable energy and getting rid of atomic energy. Regarding energy consumption I hardly doubt any country could beat the industrial consumption of mine, still we try to handle it efficient, which means we dont use light bulbs to light every part of our houses, nor do we need air conditioning in every system. And we have a subtropic climate, summers are 100 degrees @ 60% humidity, which is cruel.
    People generally wont accept any decrease in their standard of living in the name of environmental reforms. I'm all for developing alternative energy sources. But historically, there is no tolerance for any loss in quality of living due to EPA regs when without them things would be as they always were. To hope for this to change in the future is naive in my opinion.

    This discussion should be about a general new way of thinking.
    Agreed.

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