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Thread: Alpha Females?

  1. #21
    78% me Eruca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Perhaps this is where the confusion lies. I don't think most people use it to mean "social position". When someone talks about an "alpha male" they are talking about a constellation of traits, not a person's social status at any point in time - just the potential to achieve that status.
    It is the constellation of traits that is exactly the problem. To say that possessing a certain constellation of traits makes a person alpha, without reference to context, says little. From one context to anther the useful traits for dominance varies wildly, so it can be accurate to call two people alpha who have in fact very different traits. What is the point of a definition that tells us so little? Does this help us accurately describe human interaction? Not much. If you want to describe more accurately say someone is a leader or are strong, or confident, these are both more accurate and more useful than calling them alpha, as I am about to show.

    The endorsement of such a simplification as the alpha ideal can be hurtful, not against truth but against what is generally beneficial to society. As alpha as a term becomes accepted it becomes, in itself, a positive. To be alpha is good. This is because many of the traits included in the constellation ARE good. Confidence, competence, a willingness to lead, aggressiveness when appropriate etc. But many others traits are not good, and are not helpful to society, ruthlessness, dishonesty, these things promote dominance but hurt the whole. They are endorsed and encouraged as the idea of alpha is endorsed and encouraged. To use the term, to accept the term, is the same as using and accepting the N word. It should not be used not because it is "untrue", so to speak, but because it is harmful, has negative results.

    In short. We have no reason to say that the ideal of alpha is "true" or useful, or accurate, while at the same time we have good reason to think the endorsement of it isnt helpful. Why use something both untrue and unhelpful?
    I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that he is a fraud, and I think despite all of his rhetoric about being a champion of the working class, it will turn out to be hollow -- Bernie Sanders on Trump

  2. #22
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    I guess I just can't get that worked up about it.

    I would disagree that it's universally accepted as a "good" thing. Especially in light of the OP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #23
    78% me Eruca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I guess I just can't get that worked up about it.

    I would disagree that it's universally accepted as a "good" thing. Especially in light of the OP.
    It isnt. But it might be. And in some circles (circles of muppets, but circles nontheless!) it very much is. It truly is a cultural phenomena, a meme, with little evidence to merit it, covering itself with a pseudo-scientific coat of authenticity. Its not wrong. But by goodness its misleading. The anal INTP in me really cant stand it.

    Still, I apologise for clobbering you with effort.
    I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that he is a fraud, and I think despite all of his rhetoric about being a champion of the working class, it will turn out to be hollow -- Bernie Sanders on Trump

  4. #24
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    If you are going to get annoyed by every musing of the muppet circle you are likely to have a hard time of it in this life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #25
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nancynobullets View Post
    Yes. Just like my natural INTJ nemesis to notice.

    Am I being too precise for you?
    Not "too" precise but yes, I did notice the Ti line of thinking and since your type is listed as INXX, I was curious.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  6. #26
    78% me Eruca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    If you are going to get annoyed by every musing of the muppet circle you are likely to have a hard time of it in this life.


    You deaded me.
    I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that he is a fraud, and I think despite all of his rhetoric about being a champion of the working class, it will turn out to be hollow -- Bernie Sanders on Trump

  7. #27
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nancynobullets View Post


    You deaded me.

    Nancy dosn't like alpha females?




    Thinking about it a little more i suppose it could be a term applied to a strong independant woman who dosn't take crap from anyone. This could be applied to my good self, although i do have the urges to help other people which may hinder my goals somewhat. Plus i'm a sucker for a sob story.
    I don't think these alpha women have to be uncaring/non-maternal/unfeeling...but it might help.... maybe "harsh but fair" that old line applying to all (considered by mojority) great leaders.
    I'm thinking of historical figures i could call alpha female...if indeed such a term could be used... so i'm going with extremes such as...
    Boudica (granted avenging deaths was her primary motive)
    Elanor of Aquitaine
    Elizabeth I
    Susan B. Anthony
    Madonna (Louise Ciccone)

    idk, i don't really care about the label name of alpha female but if we are going to apply it to genders we could prehaps not seperate the two (unless possibly only in terms relative to apes). Just alpha... hmmm.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    Nancy dosn't like alpha females?

    I don't think you've understood me. At all!
    I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that he is a fraud, and I think despite all of his rhetoric about being a champion of the working class, it will turn out to be hollow -- Bernie Sanders on Trump

  9. #29
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nancynobullets View Post
    I don't think you've understood me. At all!
    No i got it, i was just teasing.
    I know how you like your truth and precision. I'm one for evolving ideas, theories. I can see how just slapping a label on something not yet defined (or defined incorrectly) can be harmful though. Hence the thread... and requesting of feedback.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  10. #30
    Senior Member lauranna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    Nancy dosn't like alpha females?




    Thinking about it a little more i suppose it could be a term applied to a strong independant woman who dosn't take crap from anyone. This could be applied to my good self, although i do have the urges to help other people which may hinder my goals somewhat. Plus i'm a sucker for a sob story.
    I don't think these alpha women have to be uncaring/non-maternal/unfeeling...but it might help.... maybe "harsh but fair" that old line applying to all (considered by mojority) great leaders.
    I'm thinking of historical figures i could call alpha female...if indeed such a term could be used... so i'm going with extremes such as...
    Boudica (granted avenging deaths was her primary motive)
    Elanor of Aquitaine
    Elizabeth I
    Susan B. Anthony
    Madonna (Louise Ciccone)

    idk, i don't really care about the label name of alpha female but if we are going to apply it to genders we could prehaps not seperate the two (unless possibly only in terms relative to apes). Just alpha... hmmm.
    I would self-define as strong and independent. But I really wouldn't see myself as alpha. Alpha to me comes across as wanting to control a group/have power over others. I am much more of a lone-wolf. I think there is something in being an alpha that suggests power over others/desire for world domination.

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