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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Not all animals are bread from humans though plenty live out freely in the wild yet people still go and hunt and kill them for garbage reasons.
    edit: scratch that, i think i may have had tired moment of extreme nativity in actually answering informatively...

    are you asking why because...
    you actually you actually want to know the reasons, economical pressures and psycological drives behind providing those pressures?
    ...or are you just "asking why" to make a point that you think its unethical and don't believe that the reasons are justifiable?

    i can easily help with the first, but with the later the best i can do is try to provide the social and psychological frameworks and reach an explanation to why different people think its ok and other's don't....

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    THIS. The way we (selfishly, in my opinion) demand so MUCH meat for the sake of convenience in our country, demand it cheaply and don't want to know any of the particulars of how the animals are treated IS contributing to humane treatment. It's not the brutality of nature to breed and raise chickens to produce so much muscle and body mass that they cannot support their own body weight, breaking their legs. It's not the brutality of nature to keep a cow constantly producing milk, and pumping her full of hormones and antibiotics so that she will continue to produce, even when her udders get infected. Nature is brutal, but we don't have to be. We can choose how we act. We are civilized. We have the power to reason, and to make compassionate decisions.

    I understand not wanting to give up meat altogether. I don't understand people being so unwilling to admit that we treat animals horribly in the factory farming practices that provide us with burgers anytime we feel like we could use a snack. I don't understand why people are so unwilling to at least consider reducing their meat consumption. We don't HAVE to have meat at every meal. The dietary practices we've adopted as the American standard since the economic good times post WWII, including the idea meat + milk = health have not made us healthier, and fast food certainly hasn't. No one needs meat at every single meal. Not to mention that the meat that is factory farmed is so shot up with hormones that it makes any of the nutrients you'd get from it a wash in terms of overall health. The fact that people are hitting puberty earlier and earlier is partly due to the exposure to these hormones through diet.
    It's pretty obvious that too much meat consumption is not only bad for you but greedy in general and detrimental.

    I find the obese guy shoving a hotdog down his throat just as disgusting as I find hardcore vegans really.

    However eating meat moderately isn't really the goal of vegans/veggies.

    I deplore bringing up extreme examples. Everything you have said is something that a lot of people (meat eaters included) are against, I mean, how many people do you know would actually say yeah I love it when chickens and cows suffer when you asked them?

    I eat a reasonable and respectable amount of meat, no more than is required for my dietary requirements, and it annoys the crap out of me that more and more that I'm getting hounded by these fucking vegies that decided to spew their opinion where its not wanted.

  3. #43
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    It's pretty obvious that too much meat consumption is not only bad for you but greedy in general and detrimental.

    I find the obese guy shoving a hotdog down his throat just as disgusting as I find hardcore vegans really.

    However eating meat moderately isn't really the goal of vegans/veggies.

    I deplore bringing up extreme examples. Everything you have said is something that a lot of people (meat eaters included) are against, I mean, how many people do you know would actually say yeah I love it when chickens and cows suffer when you asked them?

    I eat a reasonable and respectable amount of meat, no more than is required for my dietary requirements, and it annoys the crap out of me that more and more that I'm getting hounded by these fucking vegies that decided to spew their opinion where its not wanted.
    I agree, though I eat mostly vegan with only occasional forays into meat land--there are reasonable vegans, too, it's just that the really vocal ones are the ones that end up tainting public perception, just as the crazy fundie Christians end up making all Christians look unreasonable.

    The only thing I'd take issue with is the bit about people saying, "yeah, I love it when chickens and cows suffer." Probably no one would say it like that, but there are plenty of folks that just don't care about what happens to the animals we consume, as long as they get to eat their burgers, nuggets and bacon. There are lots of folks that have the attitude of "get over it, humans eat meat," and they're not interested in knowing how we treat the animals that are being raised and slaughtered for us. I don't need everyone to stop eating meat, but I would consider it progress for people to care about having humane practices in place, and to consider not patronizing places that support factory farming when possible.
    Something Witty

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    I find the obese guy shoving a hotdog down his throat just as disgusting as I find hardcore vegans really..
    but the first guy is having so much fun! and the vegan is feeling so much better himself!

    really why would you find those disgusting? why would you care?

  5. #45
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Very true indeed, the ice creams had consciousness as well.
    It is not a fact that consciousness=immoral to kill. It's an opinion. If you don't think it's immoral, there's no reason to abstain.
    -end of thread-

  6. #46
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    No I don't feel this way, and that is not the point I was trying to convey. Most people in western society and first world countries hunt for sport.
    I disagree

    Based on my experience in the Midwest and the significant number of hunters I have known, I can safely say that every single one of them used the animals for (delicious) sustenance. You could call it a sport, but I consider that a lesser function.

    Sustenance and shelter are fundamental.

  7. #47
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Take word to the lions. Let them feel the sorrowful sympathy for the other animals and eye upon leaves for their newly found guilt.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    what is the purpose of killing animals? Why do millions of animals die each year for the sake of human consumption? Why have people become so obessed with fast food? What makes an animals less of a being than humans? They can smell,touch, think, dream they can understand language.
    The circle of life. Senseless killing to me is when it becomes a problem. Our bodies need protein from meat to stay healthy. From what I read vegetarians need suplements to make up for lack of protien from not eating meat.

    People are obsessed with fast food because its cheap and easy. Well, used to be cheap. Taco Bueno cost me $8 yesterday. For $2 more I can get me grilled Maragrita chicken from Chillis which is much healthier and tastes much better. Most of my fast food these days though are from the 99 cent menu because its fast and cheap. Plus it gives me a reason to leave for lunch instead of being couped up at a computer desk
    Im out, its been fun

  9. #49
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    I think @jixmixfix has some good points in this thread. I am mostly vegetarian with a splash of eating meat when I am craving that. My reasons are primarily health related but I do consider the inhumane treatment of animals that are mass slaughtered in giant meat factories.

    For me immorality comes into play when we, the superior species, view these animals as just mere commodities to satiate our needs without any consideration for theirs. There is no reason to clip the beaks off of chickens and stuff them in a cage that is barely big enough for them to blink an eye other than simple greed. The wider the abyss of intelligence the more compassionate we should be. We have the ability to choose the high road, and that is a great responsibility. And in the words of the comic Spiderman, with great power comes great responsibility.



    Probably not articulated as well as I could since I am at work and distracted but those are my preliminary thoughts on this topic.

  10. #50
    Senior Member FunnyDigestion's Avatar
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    Humans don't kill animals, factories do. If people had to kill an animal every time they wanted meat, everyone would be a vegetarian, because western civilization is a population of lazy fatasses.

    & humans aren't at the top of the food chain. If you were out in the woods & heard a pack of wolves howling, you'd forget that idea pretty quickly.
    RCUAI
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    "Man is free, but his freedom ceases when he has no faith in it."

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