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  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    I actually wonder what would happen to our planet if every human being on it suddenly stopped eating/killing animals completely and subsisted on an entirely vegetarian diet. I'm inclined to think serious problems would ensue.
    Considering people farm animals now which increases the population but I suppose people would stop farming animals and there would be more wildlife. There would be certain areas where there would be wildlife control.

  2. #172
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Society for Clinical Nutrition
    The use of land and energy resources devoted to an average meat-based diet compared with a lactoovovegetarian (plant-based) diet is analyzed in this report. In both diets, the daily quantity of calories consumed are kept constant at about 3533 kcal per person. The meat-based food system requires more energy, land, and water resources than the lactoovovegetarian diet. In this limited sense, the lactoovovegetarian diet is more sustainable than the average American meat-based diet.
    Full link= http://www.ajcn.org/content/78/3/660S.long

    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I've known a few hunters in my time. And the general take on this issue is that if civilization falls, the animal lovers are going to be looking to them for their very survival. These are more-or-less survivalists who are prepared for what they consider to be the inevitable.

    Some people may scoff at that, but you never know. Nuclear war was the first major threat, and now, in my view, it's general economic collapse and anarchy. But the nuke threat has never really gone away.
    This is an interesting take on it. Demonstrating the ability to dominate does make humans feel secure and there are countless examples of that. This rationalization you describe is a perfect example of a psychological need to kill/dominate to feel secure.

    As far a nuclear threat is concerned, animals as well as anything on the surface would be poisoned by radiation, so I suspect hunting wouldn't be the best way to insure survival as much as being able to engineer an environment protected from radiation. It takes more acreage to produce meat than produce. Meat produces a high cost in trying to feed an expanding world population. At some point humanity may have to become more vegetarian out of necessity for survival.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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  3. #173
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    I actually wonder what would happen to our planet if every human being on it suddenly stopped eating/killing animals completely and subsisted on an entirely vegetarian diet. I'm inclined to think serious problems would ensue.
    They would, but mostly because people would do so without the information they need to get the proper nutrients for their bodies. The first time I went veg about 10 years back, I didn't last long, because I was mostly just not eating meat, rather than replacing it with healthier items and making sure I was eating whole grains, beans, nuts, etc. But frankly, a quick look at the overall health of our country shows that meateaters don't have a monopoly on health, nor the information to keep them healthy. Many of the adults I grew up around ate mostly meat, potatoes and an occasional canned vegetable, along with lots of junk food. They've now got a host of health problems, diabetes and cancer being the most prominent. Also, fad diets and our emphasis on gaining muscle has led a whole generation to get most of their diets from animal sources, even if it is the healthier version of that meat (ie, living off grilled chicken breasts, etc.), and throwing their bodies into constant ketosis.

    Most committed vegetarians are overall healthier because they pay more attention to the things they put into their bodies. If people were to switch to vegetarianism after having done extensive research, they probably would be much healthier than they are now. The China Study bears that out.

    I'm not saying everyone needs to, or should, switch to vegetarianism, but I am saying that we, as a country of rabid meateaters, have experienced some pretty bad health problems already. Having to take an iron or B12 supplement wouldn't be the worst thing ever.

    But yes, there would also be some differences in lifestyles, and we would probably have to address the problem of certain animals overbreeding, such as deer. But we also wouldn't have to raise billions and billions of chickens and cows to be slaughtered for food every year, and that would likely be a positive net impact.
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  4. #174
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    I actually wonder what would happen to our planet if every human being on it suddenly stopped eating/killing animals completely and subsisted on an entirely vegetarian diet. I'm inclined to think serious problems would ensue.
    There would be extinction of entire species. Cows cannot survive in the wild after thousands of years of human care. PETA or ELF would have to mass-euthanize millions of animals, or else they would simply roam the countryside or even city streets causing major issues until they finally perished. The wolf population would abound, but when they finally run out of this easy food source massive wolf starvation will ensue.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #175
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    I actually wonder what would happen to our planet if every human being on it suddenly stopped eating/killing animals completely and subsisted on an entirely vegetarian diet. I'm inclined to think serious problems would ensue.
    What would happen if the change wasn't sudden? Sudden change of many kinds causes problems primarily because of the suddenness, not because the new approach is in itself a problem. I notice most of the comments the reinforce the idea of problems ensuing focus on the issues associated with sudden transition.

    I also wish someone would address the resource issues raised in research studies that demonstrate meat consumption is a less sustainable option that a vegetation based diet for long-term food supplies.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  6. #176
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    If you look at it from a religious point of view: they are there for us to eat. And wear.

    Biological: we eat all that is below us on the food chain.

    Something both sides can agree upon. I tend to eat dumb animals. I'd feel bad about eating gorilla, dolphin, dog, etc.
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  7. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    EDIT. I hate it when people delete their posts.
    Fine:

    It's the inertia of tradition, same reason some places still encourage wearing neckties in certain formal situations and other traditions people have an attachment to yet serve no purpose beyond themselves.

    You'll see plenty of faulty reasoning used to defend it. Treating evolution or evolutionary speculation as a form of morality is a common one (treating a "was" as an "ought"). Claims that humans have any reliance on meat in developed countries is another. Associating vegetarians with animal-lovers, as though it's an inherent connection, and so on.

    An example of non-faulty reasoning in favor of meat-eating is "I like meat, and would like for people to continue to provide it for me". Simple, yet effective.

    On a related note, animals won't be needed for meat and dairy production long before the vegetarian population has a chance at being a majority. It will be an interesting conflict, as many non-meat eaters look forward to this, and many meat-eaters the opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Administering an effective vegetarian diet is more complicated and easier to fuck up
    This simply isn't true. There's less pitfalls to a modern vegetarian diet than an omnivorous one. Only in undeveloped countries is that not true. In order to match the "effectiveness" of the average vegetarian diet, and omnivore has to eat very little meat (approximately <5% of caloric intake, if I remember right), and no red meat whatsoever, whilst doing the same thing as the vegetarian with the rest of their calories.

    Someone's already posted the Wikipedia link that explains all that. However, for vegans it's a different case. They share the same mortality rate and face possibly as many health problems as omnivores typically do, maybe more, but seem to put more effort into their diet than omnivores. This difficulty isn't inherent to veganism, but due to a market that doesn't cater to them (to put it another way, if 10% of people were vegan, they wouldn't have a lot of these difficulties).

    (Pescetarians arguably have the easiest time being healthy given the current market, it's a close match between them and vegetarians anyway)

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Why would a non meat-eater look forward to eating meat?
    Depends on their reasons. My reasons are I see the meat industry as a big waste of time and resources raising so many animals for the sake of a trivial food type, so I abstain (and that reasoning applies to certain other industries too of course). Vats of artificial tumors, for example, could produce meat more efficiently with less resources, undercutting my reasons for abstaining (as well as those who don't want animals to suffer).

  8. #178
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    Depends on their reasons. My reasons are I see the meat industry as a big waste of time and resources raising so many animals for the sake of a trivial food type, so I abstain (and that reasoning applies to certain other industries too of course). Vats of artificial tumors, for example, could produce meat more efficiently with less resources, undercutting my reasons for abstaining (as well as those who don't want animals to suffer).
    Vats of artificial tumors would be a sure-fire way of eliminating all interest in meat consumption.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #179
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    Depends on their reasons. My reasons are I see the meat industry as a big waste of time and resources raising so many animals for the sake of a trivial food type, so I abstain (and that reasoning applies to certain other industries too of course). Vats of artificial tumors, for example, could produce meat more efficiently with less resources, undercutting my reasons for abstaining (as well as those who don't want animals to suffer).
    Vats of artificial tumors would be a sure-fire way of eliminating all interest in meat consumption.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Vats of artificial tumors would be a sure-fire way of eliminating all interest in meat consumption.
    Presented that way, sure, but you'd be amazed what lower prices and a little bit of quality advertising can do.

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