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  1. #1
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Default People close to you asking you to explain yourself...

    ...and you fail.

    Weirdo ?

    I am pretty sick of feeling alone on this World but still 99% of the people in my daily life drain my energy. Am I stupid, am I not seeing a valueable detail ? Do you know what I mean ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #2
    Diving into Ni-space Crescent Fresh's Avatar
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    I'm quoting this since you've permitted me to in order for me to offer you my opinion on this:

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie
    in regards to people being close to me and understanding me or better to think like me. It feels to me like life is an endless nightmare in which I have to explain myself and why I think like I do. People tend to disagree with me after I explained myself, tho explaining myself is the most personal thing for me in which I show the most of myself and if people disagree I am not pissed off. but most people tend to make fun out of my ideas or disregard them as *whatever* too dreamy, unrealistic, not to the point, wrong...

    And that tho I have had a lot of luck so far in life and my decisions were always the right ones, which made me happy.

    So I am in the vertigo here, on the one hand, when I let people in they make fun out of me and on the other hand, the facts of my life tell that I have made good decisions so far. So the question is am I ill or something or why cant I absolutely not align with the rest of humanity. Is it maybe a thing everybody does experience ?
    If they make fun of you about you're not being realistic, perhaps they have good intentions as it's a sign of caring about you. Though I know this can be frustrating as I also experienced something similar of what you've been through.

    The difference is that it really depends on who they are. If I consider someone as really close to me and that s/he has known me for a long time, I will feel immediately disappointed but not feeling hurt. However, if they come on too strongly to a point where they're trying to prove that I'm wrong or heading to a wrong path, that's when I can get really upset by unleashing my Ni-Ti on them in a forceful way.

    I really think their tone factor a lot in how they manage to disagree with your ideals. If they deliver it in a proper manner, just try to accept the fact that they might not be as close as you think you wanted them to be. However, if they make it sound like your ideals is a joke, then I think you've accomplished it by trying your best to prove them wrong. In fact, I thought that's a good motivation factor for you to pursue your dreams further. Just try to take it as a positive provocation.

    You mentioned about if it's wrong to expect too much from people and worth the risk of letting people in to your world (that's how I perceived your question)? I would definitely say that you're not ill to think like that. Though you should also keep in mind that once you open up yourself to let other people in, you're also risking yourself in a vulnerable position if things do not align with your belief. I'm not sure if that has to do with most Fe users, but it is through the conflicts and misunderstanding that I know if someone is worth my emotional investment on them.

    I truly felt that there are people who are mean to be part of your life, and usually those people will know you without needing much self-explanation from your actions. Unfortunately, keep in mind that this is quite common as most people do not think like you and curiosity is naturally a good thing if they didn't apply any negative judgment on your views in various aspects in life. The only thing you can do is to avoid having such deep conversation with those who you don't click with. Just because some people are close to you, it doesn't necessary mean that they can understand you completely, no matter how hard you try to reveal your inner-self to them.

    Don't feel discourage, the more people you meet, the more chance of having those special folks who can see through you without much validation from you, especially through disagreements.

  3. #3
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Thanks for your words.

    You know in that regards I feel more like an Fi user. Lets take an example: I am the one who never comes in conflict with his superiors at my job. On the contrary when those people want something they tend to go to me first. So I am pretty good with that. Then there is this other guy at work, who always comes into troubles with the superiors. No matter what he does he always manages to eff it up. So I help him with his last project and told him to write things this and that way. Then he of course asked why and tho I only have hunches why some things are better I always try to explain myself. And I am not too bad in explaining but somehow the guy at work always starts to work against me, to poke me and to test my theories. I of course cant defend my theories cause most of them are hunches are insticts about "what feels right" or about "what I want to read being a superior". This is very very exhausting for me and at some point he just cracks me up, leaving me wondering why the eff I cared about his issues in the first place.

    Now when I have a thing that feels right to me. A thing that motivates me and that is close to my heart. When I share that, I'ld like people to feel the same like I do, I'ld like unity. But I barely can explain why I feel that way, its just there, there is no reason. And then people tend to become critical and make fun out of me.

    You know I have a pretty pretty thick skin and I am experiencing this problem all my life. I am just wondering about the future and if this will go on forever. If it may be me who is malfunctioning. When I talk to my girl, we understand each other with eyes closed. She sometimes just has to say one word and I know the whole series of events involved in what she wants from me. This is partly so because we know each other for 7 years, but this is the reason aswell I fell in love with her. I dont need to explain myself to her, she does understand me.

    It's like people always everytime need a reason for things and cant accept that sometimes you just do something cause it feels good or because your instincts told you to, because you are enthusiastic about it. Jane Austen ones wrote: "A mind lively and at ease, can do with seeing nothing, and can see nothing that does not answer" and its my most favourite quote.

    I have lived my life so successfully until today, just following my instincts that my mind wont accept the fact that every step you make have to follow a general masterplan or that everything you decide must be based on a logical reason. Of course I am no idiot and dont start to overestimate my luck, I basically only want to say that when I say: "I like to eat an ice cream right now", the answer "why?" is something that cracks me up.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #4
    Senior Member pv255's Avatar
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    I know exactly what you're talking about. The crazy ideas, the explaining, the dismissal & defensive responses, the self-doubt, and exhaustion. I think it gets better with time. People respect their elders by default. And by then you'll have some credentials and built a reputation.
    I don't see many options. I think we just have to wait it out.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    You know in that regards I feel more like an Fi user. Lets take an example: I am the one who never comes in conflict with his superiors at my job. On the contrary when those people want something they tend to go to me first. So I am pretty good with that. Then there is this other guy at work, who always comes into troubles with the superiors. No matter what he does he always manages to eff it up. So I help him with his last project and told him to write things this and that way. Then he of course asked why and tho I only have hunches why some things are better I always try to explain myself. And I am not too bad in explaining but somehow the guy at work always starts to work against me, to poke me and to test my theories.

    I of course cant defend my theories cause most of them are hunches are insticts about "what feels right" or about "what I want to read being a superior". This is very very exhausting for me and at some point he just cracks me up, leaving me wondering why the eff I cared about his issues in the first place.

    Now when I have a thing that feels right to me. A thing that motivates me and that is close to my heart. When I share that, I'ld like people to feel the same like I do, I'ld like unity. But I barely can explain why I feel that way, its just there, there is no reason. And then people tend to become critical and make fun out of me.

    It's like people always everytime need a reason for things and cant accept that sometimes you just do something cause it feels good or because your instincts told you to, because you are enthusiastic about it. Jane Austen ones wrote: "A mind lively and at ease, can do with seeing nothing, and can see nothing that does not answer" and its my most favourite quote.
    Sounds like your coworker is a 'sensor'. As an ENTP you speak intuition, so if you’re talking to a dominant sensing personality type it might be a challenge because the ENTP’s sensing function is least energized. The sensing type is going to prefer concrete, in the moment, practical, detailed answers, which you're probably not going to be able to provide to their satisfaction without expending a great deal of energy.

    Something else I was thinking about is how an ENTP might confuse the confident KNOWING that comes with being a dominant intuitive personality type with experiencing a ‘feeling’. Does that make sense? From what I'm reading in your post, it sounds like it does. (:

    Basically, we see a pattern in the immediate reality and make a leap impression of a greater reality (which may not be reality and may not be based entirely on reality), yet we have a confident KNOWING that it is reality (until the Ne data stream introduces new information to Ti where restructuring occurs). For an ENTP, the auxiliary Ti function structures and sifts through the information provided by Ne, which seems to happen when we’re speaking to an audience (for example). In other words, we don’t spend a lot of time with Ti thinking and refining things in our head first like an INTP would. We tend to conceptualize on the fly as we're collaborating.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Basically, we see a pattern in the immediate reality and make a leap impression of a greater reality (which may not be reality and may not be based entirely on reality), yet we have a very confident KNOWING that it is reality. To an ENTP the auxiliary Ti function structures and sifts through the information provided by Ne, which seems to happen when we’re speaking to our audience. In other words, we don’t spend a lot of time with Ti thinking and refining things in our head first like an INTP would. We tend to conceptualize on the fly as we're collaborating.
    I love it Yeah, Ne/Se as an aux we think we KNOW based on what Se/Ne says based on impression, but we dont hold on to what we think we know We just keep moving in the direction with an eye on what we know and dont know.

    So how do I energize an ENTPs sensing function?


    edit: To op: I am the same way when asked how I figured something out. I cant explain, all I can do is walk them through the same steps. The inevitable question comes up...how did you put 2 and 2 together to get from step 1 to step 2. Have no clue.
    Im out, its been fun

  7. #7
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    ...and you fail.

    Weirdo ?

    I am pretty sick of feeling alone on this World but still 99% of the people in my daily life drain my energy. Am I stupid, am I not seeing a valueable detail ? Do you know what I mean ?
    There is no need to justify our existence for we are ends in ourselves.

    However if we are means to another's ends, we need to show how we serve the ends of another.

    If we are ends in ourselves, we can delight in doing things for their own sake.

    But if we are a means, our energy is being drained by serving the ends of others.

    For instance, at a party they will always ask us, "What do you do?", presuming we are means like they are, rather than ends like we are.

  8. #8
    Senior Member pv255's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Sounds like your coworker is a 'sensor'. As an ENTP you speak intuition, so if you’re talking to a dominant sensing personality type it might be a challenge because the ENTP’s sensing function is least energized. The sensing type is going to prefer concrete, in the moment, practical, detailed answers, which you're probably not going to be able to provide to their satisfaction without expending a great deal of energy.

    Something else I was thinking about is how an ENTP might confuse the confident KNOWING that comes with being a dominant intuitive personality type with experiencing a ‘feeling’. Does that make sense? From what I'm reading in your post, it sounds like it does. (:

    Basically, we see a pattern in the immediate reality and make a leap impression of a greater reality (which may not be reality and may not be based entirely on reality), yet we have a confident KNOWING that it is reality (until the Ne data stream introduces new information to Ti where restructuring occurs). For an ENTP, the auxiliary Ti function structures and sifts through the information provided by Ne, which seems to happen when we’re speaking to an audience (for example). In other words, we don’t spend a lot of time with Ti thinking and refining things in our head first like an INTP would. We tend to conceptualize on the fly as we're collaborating.
    Interesting comparison of ENTPs and INTPs. I had no idea. So you just get a feeling that its right, but you forget how came up to your conclusion? I am very curious. Please provide an example.

  9. #9
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pv255 View Post
    Interesting comparison of ENTPs and INTPs. I had no idea. So you just get a feeling that its right, but you forget how came up to your conclusion? I am very curious. Please provide an example.
    No. Intuition is nothing that can be explained, cause then it would be just another form of logic. On top of that it isnt even something that can be described, because it is formed by so many variables that it has a very complex structure.
    I have often seen that people associate a penchant for intellectuality with music. I rather think that a penchant for music is a sign of intuition. Imo music is the best tool to understand or to live out intuition at all.

    You know people ask me why I sometimes am intrested in certain things or why I watch certain shows, listen to certain music. The answer is, I am feeding on it. I am collecting bits and bits of information from anywhere and form a new creation from it. I will always be an individual, cause the World I have build myself does not exist in this form, never did and never will. It's like a robot that you fed with quadrillions of useful/not useful information and then switch it on and see what happens. Basically everyone is like this, we all are, but not everyone chooses to live that way. The majority of people settles for one personality at some point and stays that way because it has proven to be effective.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #10
    Senior Member pv255's Avatar
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    I see. The music analogy helped.
    Wow, that's rough. I thought we had similar problems, but they differ more than I initially realized. I can still explain my decisions. It just takes a lot of time and effort to connect the dots for other people.
    I have an ENFP friend. She told me about one of her business ideas. It took a little while, but I think I've rationalized it. Now we just need someone who isnt lazy to make her idea a reality. On second thought lazy isnt the right word. I am actually far from lazy. Both of us are uncertain of the idea's value. Therefore we are hesitant to put a lot of time into it. Time is a very valuable commodity we're both limited in. Reading this makes me want to reevaluate her idea though.
    I'd like to hear more examples.

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