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Thread: The Forum Flow

  1. #41
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Protean I think what nemo and I are trying to say is that it's not fair to reduce a genuine concern like ours down to a petty personal greviance and invalidate it thereby. We're not talking about wanting to talk about our favourite brand of talcum powder in the politics zone ffs. We're talking about how the linear model of argument that's encouraged here as the ideal represses EP style thought.
    By way of balance, I'm a mod that would only disturb a derail if it was a couple of pages, and even then only to stick it in a thread where it can be better explored.

    So.... we are trying to cater to a lot of different types, with different styles.

    All of the people, all of the time? Nope. So.. could be worse.. could be better.

    You are at little risk of me being a thread mover. As a madmin team, we discuss stuff and pretty much follow a consensus we have different styles. Certainly we aren't wanting anyone to get wound up by our actions.. it's about keeping the forum moving well.

    'course, there is a strange and uncanny link between me not being someone who moves/splits threads, and being a rather lazy NP.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    So it sounds to me that splitting and moving threads is personal to some members of the forum. Like I said before don't take it personally. Having your thread split or merged isn't an indictment against the individual poster or indicating that your viewpoint isn't valid.
    Its not and never has been to me... albeit confusing to follow what was an interesting conversation at the new location... but I have wondered about something. Is the OP consulted before making a decision to split? The few times I've been on a thread where others were complaining about a derail, the OP came in thanking everyone for their posts and asking them to carry on as they had been doing. In two cases, the more forceful complainers were, obviously, contacting admin asking for a split and the OP didn't like it. Just asking.

  3. #43
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Default The Forum Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Pass the Bloody Mary.


    Yes I realize I have the mentality of a 12 year old today.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  4. #44
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
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    I'm not criticizing anyone, though. I love this forum. It's my favorite -- by far. I just find myself holding back, and that's why.
    I haven't found the madmins and mods to be too strict with splitting threads; in fact, just recently I made a post in the abortion thread that I was sure a mod would split off into a new thread; the post concerned something more broad than abortion, namely women's rights in general, but they left it as is, which I do appreciate.

    I tend to agree that too liberal a policy on splitting threads is a no-no, because I don't see much difference between a real-life conversation, which takes bends and turns like a river would, and which may end on a topic seemingly unrelated to the original, but which is certainly often very in-depth, germane and satisfying. Beginning and ending a discussion on two vastly different topics doesn't mean that the discussion isn't fruitful, as I think you're suggesting; in fact, allowing the conversation to go where it wilt is the best way to have a deep, dynamic, satisfying and interesting discussion.

    Fluff, to me, is something that derails the topic into personal member-related affairs, such as how many times a week a member goes out partying, who has a crush on who, banter and jokes, and he-said-she-said stuff. That's fluff, and these days most people are conscious of not letting it slip unchecked into coherent discussions; usually fluff stays in its place around here, in the fluff-labeled and fluff-purposed threads, from what I can tell. I haven't seen a thread derailed by fluff except once recently, and it's debatable whether the fluff actually killed the thread or whether the thread was already dying when the fluff rooted itself.

    I agree that a topic of discussion should be allowed to touch on various topics that aren't necessarily strictly in-line with the main thesis of the thread, whatever that may be. No topic is stand-alone; in other words, all topics have various currents and contexts flowing through them and surrounding them; they are never islands, and to treat them as such is, as Sub and Nemo have implied, counter-productive to brainstorming and to discussion itself. To treat them as islands is to stunt them, but I haven't noticed that the authorities around here are stunting discussions this way.

    Again I want to stress that I see no difference between real-life discussions conducted through word of mouth (and also e-mail and IM) and forum discussions. Conversations, like forum discussions, should be allowed to flow from one germane topic to the next. When in doubt about whether a topic is germane, it's almost certainly best for a mod to leave it where it was posted, i.e. in the main thread, because more than likely the post is related to the main topic even if it's not explicitly clear how, and I've noticed that the mods tend to do that around here. In other words, I don't notice that the mods and admins are particularly zealous about splitting threads. It's not a concern of mine at present, but if they WERE over-zealous, I could definitely see where Nemo and Sub are coming from. I DO see where Nemo and Sub (and possibly others; I haven't read the whole thread) are coming from. But again, I don't see this as a problem here right now.

    I would also caution against making this an EP position or cause; I’d warrant it’s a perspective held by many types. Making this concern seem like one that would mainly apply to EPs probably hurts your case more than helps it, because it makes many types pause and think, “Is this really just an EP thing? Hmm. Maybe I'm not allowed to be worried about it or particularly concerned if I'm not an EP; do I have to have EP tendencies to see where they're coming from?” It's just not a good idea, I think.

    I can say I agree with Nemo and Sub’s perspective on how discussions should flow, but I don’t actually see thread-splitting as a problem right now; I don’t see it happening over-zealously or without sense. In any case that I do think a thread is split unnecessarily, remembering Nemo and Sub’s shared concern (and my own) about allowing threads to grow as they will, I’ll shoot a pm to a mod or admin. I’ll keep it in mind.
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  5. #45
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Of course record numbers are logging in. It's because I'm posting again
    Well, I thought it might be because I'm not posting.

    But I like your explanation. We'll go with that.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  6. #46
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    haha Haight, when I saw on the front page you'd replied, I was so totally sure it was gonna be a cutting put-down... that has to be the biggest surprise I've had ... or in fact the only surprise I've had, for a very long time! hahaha.... thank you!!

    -------

    Proteanmix
    - I wasn't saying that I thought having a thread split was a personal indictment, I have NEVER EVER thought, or even had it cross my mind, that madmins split/cut/move in order to annoy, upset or judge anyone. I have ALWAYS been well aware that it's purely an admin thing and not personal. To think otherwise would be immature, paranoid and completely irrational. Maybe some people do take it personally, but I certainly don't and I wasn't talking about them.

    And moreover, it's never been done to me personally anyway!!!

    I am trying to say that it's a simple side effect of the very event of splitting/moving etc, just it happening at all, no matter to whom, that it obstructs and inhibits the natural flow of EP style of thought. It's just a side effect. I was just saying that when it happens more than usual or more than before (as it has been in the last month or so), it would have the effect of putting EP's off contributing both because the resulting material that's left over doesn't appeal (because it's "too tidy"!!), and because the EP would feel inhibited and unable to process things as is natural to us. I am not blaming or judging anyone for that and not requesting that anything be done about it. I'm simply saying: "it happens".

    And then I'm saying that, as a separate thing, there are no EP's on the madmin team and only one extravert amongst 10 introverts, which is just worth noting, that it can possibly give an impression of things being a little unbalanced, whether they are in reality or not. It just doesn't look good, doesn't look fair, though I made no judgement, speculation or accusation as to whether or not things actually ARE done fairly.

    And finally, I tried to say "I have no agenda here, I just thought I'd point those things out, since Edahn asked and seemed interested", though I had no idea why he wanted to know or what he wanted to do with the knowledge or feedback he got, and frankly didn't care. I know it might be hard for you to understand because I've learned that some people just always have to have a plan, but I don't. I'm not a person who operates according to plans and indeed most EP's aren't. We just do stuff randomly. If you ask "what did you hope to achieve?" or "what do you expect me to do about it?" we simply shrug and blink at you, like "Expect? Hope? Huh? Wha...?" We just like to express things, to share knowledge, to explore ideas.

    And then I said that, when you keep on talking about us taking the splitting/moving of our posts/threads personally, that was what I felt was invalidating my point. NOT that splitting the threads/moving the posts invalidated me as a person, but that your perception that my objection to it being done is based on me thinking that it's done maliciously or as an indictment against me seemed to want to invalidate my point that had nothing to do with taking things personally, but about simply how something that happens, has a side effect that's not something I and many other EP's appreciate much, which is to hinder the way we naturally think. Do you see the distinction I'm making?

    It's like we speak different languages or something. I'm genuinely sorry about that. It totally gives me a headache and I know it gets you annoyed too. I wish that weren't the case cos we're both intelligent people and should be able to get along and communicate. Please say you understand me this attempt, or we'll have to call in the translators!!!

    Now that is totally the last time I am going to try to clarify that point. But perhaps now it's a little clearer, at least, why i didn't want to explain it in the first place? Unbelievable though it might seem, I totally knew this would happen, and just didn't want to go through it all precisely because I wasn't asking anything to be done about it, so it just wasn't worth all the aggro just to 'point something out'. But once you start, and someone misunderstands, you get sorta locked into the process. I really wanted to avoid that because I've a lotta stress goin' on and people around and stuff. I just wanted to say a quick "actually no Edahn i think it's boring and stuff so there " and zip off and leave people to make of it what they would.

    *sigh*

    Think I'll take another break!!!
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  7. #47
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    For the record, Ivy, I'm totally Type A about organizing threads. I get a weird sense of pleasure for it. Very weird. I move more threads than...Abercrombie, and I love announcing it to the whole forum so people can admire me and want to be me, even though they can't. Suckas.

    "I like fluff because it gives me something to do." ~Edahn
    Last edited by ThatsWhatHeSaid; 04-22-2008 at 07:15 PM. Reason: fixed link

  8. #48
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    For the record, Ivy, I'm totally Type A about organizing threads. I get a weird sense of pleasure for it. Very weird. I move more threads than...Abercrombie, and I love announcing it to the whole forum so people can admire me and want to be me, even though they can't. Suckas.

    "I like fluff because it gives me something to do." ~Edahn
    Ah! INTP status confirmed.

    ...you do actually quite like moving them though. Go on, stand up.... pretend it is your first meeting at Admins Anonymous.

  9. #49
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    SJ! *see below*
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  10. #50
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Someone's off-topic posts about thread-splitting moved to here.


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