User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 93

Thread: The Forum Flow

  1. #21
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I said it's subjective. That means I don't and wouldn't claim it's based necessarily on something like a 'point' or evidence that can be 'argued'. For that reason, I had no intention of arguing it. I feel now like I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't. It wasn't a criticism or complaint, just a personal observation, a subjective one.
    No problem, but do realize that since you put it out in the atmosphere inquiring madmin minds were curious as to what you meant. I don't think asking you to clarify is out of bounds considering you called it "rather heavy handed madmin-ing." You didn't think that required any further explanation? Methinks you're feeling kind of bored so you wrote it and now you want to back out of it and disavow any other meaning.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I don't feel intimidated, but you have to admit that the exact wording used by Protean didn't exactly not sound like a challenge.
    Yeah, it did. But I thought that's the way we played with each other!

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    And I'm genuinely not sure what Ivy meant by her reply, unless it was that she speculated that the reason I might say what I said were because I had taken some 'tidying up' personally, or maybe she was saying that because some other people take it personally, it might be why they're not posting...? I just don't know. It hadn't occurred to me to take anything personally or think of anyone else doing. The only way in which the word 'personal' crossed my mind was that I was giving a 'personal' perception or opinion.
    But Sub, you made the first move. All we did was respond. In fact the whole purpose of this thread was to note how calm things were on the forum. And it seems so strange that you said what you said, at least it seemed that way to me. Your purpose was to_______? If you have any madmin criticism I think we're all pretty open to hearing it. No need for aggressive passive-aggressiveness.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    But if you must know, then for me it feels like there's been a shift to, as I said, a more I/J friendly atmosphere... I's will prolly still like it if they're P's and E's if they're J's, but I don't reckon it's very E/P-ish around here lately. I guess I'd feel happier if there were more (or any!!) EP's on the madmin team... as far as I can see there's only one extravert out of 11 madmins. I guess I just feel like the extraverts, and especially EP's don't really have much of a 'voice'. And no, I'm not putting myself forward, I don't wanna do it any more than anyone else wants me to.
    I can count on one hand the amount of regularly active ENJs on the forum and ESJs are practically non-existent. I'd need two hands and some toes for the ENPs. The forum has over 1000 active members most of whom are NPs. Doing forum maintenance inhibits the flow of Ne? Should there be a more constant flow of one function over another?

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Like I say, I don't expect to be taken seriously
    ...must...resist...

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I guess, in the reactions to my perception as some might be in my perception itself, precisely because I have no personal investment, emotional or otherwise. I just saw you asking for opinions on the subject, so thought ah, yeah alright then, I might as well just register that not everyone feels as appreciative of the 'nice introvert/serious person friendly relaxation vibe'. When I said feel free, I meant really just that, y'know, take it or leave it.
    I don't know, Edahn's OP seemed like he's enjoying the current atmosphere of the forum. And I agree, it seems like we're nice and toasty right now. I don't open every thread I see either and when I want some discussion about something I start a topic about it. Your forum experience is very much one of your own making. Let's share the wealth.

  2. #22
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Seanan, I think for EP's, most subjects are interesting, but it's not so much the subject as the way that it's discussed or approached. It needs to be done openly, freely and with plenty of room to manoeuvre around and digress, come back, digress, come back, and just search around the 'hallways of always' that Ne plugs into habitually, and the bigger sphere of human experience of Se.

    If we feel we're going to be split off, cut off, cut down, etc, anytime someone else just can't see how what we're saying relates to the topic, and because we ourselves can't explain yet, how it relates... then we won't generally say much or feel excited by the conversation, or that it holds much for us.

    We don't want to march up and down one little track in a neat, 'tidy' little line, or spend hours dissecting something into smaller and smaller parts... it just doesn't appeal. We want to do the opposite - to always keep relating it to bigger, wider stuff that the others might think of as 'outside' stuff, and that word that people use like a weapon: irrelevant.

    And EP's are interested in people and reaching out and stuff. Again, if we get cut off and split off when we do that, we lose our flow, it sorta violently fucks with our 'Tao'.

    I'm not whining. Just saying, that's all. I wouldn't say you know for sure just cos I've said that... I can't talk for all EP's but I know I'm talking for some of 'em at least. At the very least then me, the ENFP in the room with me now in RL and the people who've PM/repped me so far!
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  3. #23
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    9,849

    Default

    substitute for Ne president!!!!

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  4. #24
    mrs disregard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    7,855

    Default

    I think this forum is finding its identity. It no longer lives in INTPc's shadow. It is so brand new, and yet it is so successful.. Like google.

    It's also great that we can meta-forum so comfortably. Flexibility and introspection within a forum is strength.

  5. #25
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Seanan, I think for EP's, most subjects are interesting, but it's not so much the subject as the way that it's discussed or approached. It needs to be done openly, freely and with plenty of room to manoeuvre around and digress, come back, digress, come back, and just search around the 'hallways of always' that Ne plugs into habitually, and the bigger sphere of human experience of Se.

    If we feel we're going to be split off, cut off, cut down, etc, anytime someone else just can't see how what we're saying relates to the topic, and because we ourselves can't explain yet, how it relates... then we won't generally say much or feel excited by the conversation, or that it holds much for us.

    We don't want to march up and down one little track in a neat, 'tidy' little line, or spend hours dissecting something into smaller and smaller parts... it just doesn't appeal. We want to do the opposite - to always keep relating it to bigger, wider stuff that the others might think of as 'outside' stuff, and that word that people use like a weapon: irrelevant.

    And EP's are interested in people and reaching out and stuff. Again, if we get cut off and split off when we do that, we lose our flow, it sorta violently fucks with our 'Tao'.

    I'm not whining. Just saying, that's all. I wouldn't say you know for sure just cos I've said that... I can't talk for all EP's but I know I'm talking for some of 'em at least. At the very least then me, the ENFP in the room with me now in RL and the people who've PM/repped me so far!
    Okay, so I guess it is thread moving and splitting...?

    I'm a little taken aback, sub, because I really tried to phrase my query in a friendly way and not make it personal. I am (well, was, I guess) honestly curious about any perception of "heavy handed madmin-ing" because, well, I'm a madmin and I try not to be heavy-handed, and from where I sit we let a lot of stuff just work itself out. You say your hackles aren't up but I kinda feel like I just got picked up in a tiger's mouth and shaken for asking a simple question.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  6. #26
    Procrastinating
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    954

    Default

    Thanks Subsitute. I do tend to agree with you from my own perspective. Too boot, I'm not good with the written word. Someone here was kind enough to explain to me why those good with a brush are not usually good with a pen. I do tend to ramble and thinking out loud I guess. Probably not good for an Ni... but it would take me hours thinking something out to make my written words more concise. I've also been away from writing school papers for a loooong time. Some here are doing that almost daily and I'm sure they get annoyed with the way I write. But, there's a flip side too... the school- type writing tends to bore me. I prefer reading what's written as actual convesation instead of a text. I'm also aware of the grammarians and how annoying my (....) and other faux pas probably are but that's the way I talk, so.... All-in-all, when people start picking each other to death is when I turn off.... spelled "don't post."

    Yes, I am an INTP and, yes, I do like casual conversation and using emoticons. If anyone should use them its an INTP or maybe INTJ but that's just my opinion and I'm getting ready to run *watching for anti-fluff brigade* I can come across very harshly when I write more technically/analytically or less casually not meaning to so they help me. Now why wouldn't anyone use what helps them? Maybe I'm an odd ball INTP (shhh) but one of my goals is to actually interact with others so I try to do what might make someone comfortable with me... imagine that.... and, if its not insulting, I will reply to someone who addresses me on a thread and, sometimes, that could even be seen as derailing. I think it was thought of that way once. I apologized for the perceived mistake and left the thread... but I still don't get it... it was all very pertinent to me so maybe its just one of those "eye of the beholder" things.

    But, anyway, thanks again Substitute.

  7. #27
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INXP
    Posts
    5,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    I'm also aware of the grammarians and how annoying my (....) and other faux pas probably are but that's the way I talk, so.... All-in-all, when people start picking each other to death is when I turn off.... spelled "don't post."
    Nah.. I am sure I am not the only NP firmly attached to his "....". You can't part me from them, kicking and screaming. The trick for me is remembering *not* to use them in formal writing, so here on the forum a relaxed style... is good for me.... don't worry about the gramarrians... it's poor netiquette anyway

  8. #28
    Senior Member nemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    NeTi
    Enneagram
    <3
    Socionics
    wtf
    Posts
    445

    Default

    FWIW, I agree entirely with substitute.

    I think on any introverted-dominated forum, discussion won't be viewed as much as an exploratory process as it is for EPs.

    The atmosphere just seems incredibly discriminating against "fluff" and there's a conscious attempt to control the "flow" of discussion in a "serious" direction -- all of which is completely bizarre to me and a few other EPs I've talked to privately.

    In fact, I can't even distinguish between "fluff" and "non-fluff" -- wtf does that even mean? Whatever comes up in a conversation is a part of the progression, blah blah blah, I don't see why it should be controlled.

    I'm not criticizing anyone, though. I love this forum. It's my favorite -- by far. I just find myself holding back, and that's why.
    You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. - Jack London

  9. #29
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Methinks you're feeling kind of bored so you wrote it and now you want to back out of it and disavow any other meaning.
    See? I'm just talking shit, yeah?

    Did you read this part:

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute
    My feelings are mainly intuitional, so no, I don't have a bullet-pointed list prepared of examples and what-not to back up my point, though I'm not really making one as such anyway. That's why I haven't said anything before about it. And because I haven't said anything about it, for the reason that I'd have predicted the I/J response would be a request for evidence and such, failing which, it'd be dismissed, is why I don't have a list of evidence to quote - because being an EP, it's by talking things through that I figure out my 'points' and cases.
    or did you just think that was further evidence of my trying to 'back out'?? Cos if you did then I'd like to hold that up as evidence of my point.

    In fact the whole purpose of this thread was to note how calm things were on the forum. And it seems so strange that you said what you said, at least it seemed that way to me.
    It seemed equally strange to me that you'd like it, or that you'd find what I said strange. Amazing, how people are different, huh?

    Your purpose was to_______?
    I said before:

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute
    I just saw you asking for opinions on the subject, so thought ah, yeah alright then, I might as well just register that not everyone feels as appreciative of the 'nice introvert/serious person friendly relaxation vibe'.
    I had no strategy or plan, except just that - to register it, for people to make of it what they would. If some people want to make something totally other than what I meant, then that's fine too, I guess...

    I can count on one hand the amount of regularly active ENJs on the forum and ESJs are practically non-existent. I'd need two hands and some toes for the ENPs. The forum has over 1000 active members most of whom are NPs. Doing forum maintenance inhibits the flow of Ne? Should there be a more constant flow of one function over another?
    I said that there are no EP's on the madmin team. It's a valid concern to have. If you had a town full of black people but no black people in the local government, would you say the black people in the town were unjustified in feeling they weren't represented, that they had no voice? If they felt that way, would it automatically mean they were accusing the non-black governors of being corrupt or biased? Or would you say it was just a legitimate and fair enough sorta concern? No need to take it personally.

    I don't know, Edahn's OP seemed like he's enjoying the current atmosphere of the forum. And I agree, it seems like we're nice and toasty right now. I don't open every thread I see either and when I want some discussion about something I start a topic about it.
    yes, I know. I know what he thinks, and what you think, I read it. I was saying that not everyone feels that way. Some of us feel that if we just start a topic about something we want to discuss, we'll be accused of flooding the place with fluff (ie anything that isn't a linear discussion and/or on a serious topic), and if we see a topic we are interested in, we can't post our thoughts in case we don't have time to explain the relevance, or we just assume it's as obvious to others as it is to us, or because we simply don't know the relevance ourselves yet but sense that it's there, and want others to see our post and bat it around a bit to help us tweeze out the essence that made it relevant... and then later get accused of being irrelevant and fluffy and have our contributions carved out of the context we wanted them placed into.

    I am saying that what it takes to make a place feel 'nice' for you, can have the side effect of making it feel 'not so nice' for people who are very different to you. And that, this being the case, it leaves the place mainly being posted in by people who like the 'nice quiet and tidy' atmosphere, which in turn, makes it somewhat boring for EP's. I wouldn't think many of us would feel like, personally devastated or upset about it, considering most of us have like, RL social lives and stuff and wouldn't really get that attached to a forum. But Edahn commented that some people were 'taking a break' and 'that's okay'... I just wanted to point out something that might be a contributing factor in that, for his personal mulling-over.

    Your forum experience is very much one of your own making.
    What, did I not say it was a subjective opinion explicitly or often enough for you to not feel the need to point that out???

    I have not at any point blamed or judged anyone for any of the things I've said. I've just pointed out that what, from some points of view, might seem fine and okay and 'just tidying up' and whatever, can be quite different from another point of view, and you can do with that insight whatever you like.

    Ivy - don't be taken aback! honestly, I'm not cross with you AT ALL. I didn't take what you said personally or feel attacked by it, I was just confused by what you meant or how it sorta was an answer to what I said, that's all. yeah I'm starting to get a bit frustrated now, but that's all, and not with you - just frustrated that sometimes no matter how much I try to express myself I get taken wrongly by some people. But not angry at any person, just frustrated at the cosmos... you know how it is, Ne/Ti cannot breathe in air that's contaminated by misunderstanding!

    And Seanan - thanks
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  10. #30
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nemo View Post
    The atmosphere just seems incredibly discriminating against "fluff" and there's a conscious attempt to control the "flow" of discussion in a "serious" direction -- all of which is completely bizarre to me and a few other EPs I've talked to privately.
    I'm really not understanding where this anti-fluff sentiment is coming from. The only thing that madmins have asked is that fluffy stuff stay in the fluffy areas. The Bonfire is the most active sub-forum and the Fluff Zone isn't far behind. It sounds like some people take affront to simply moving and/or splitting threads. Don't take it personally, seriously.

Similar Threads

  1. I have finally arrived. You can close this part of the forum now
    By Dali in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 09-23-2016, 11:48 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO