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  1. #151
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Tried what?

    Throwing it out, or giving it a chance?

    I think throwing it out settles things pretty well.

    I don't think throwing it out makes sense because I keep reminding myself what the culprit might be: What I mentioned about Myers and her redefining of Fi/Ti introverts. I can't find any other situation that made such an intentional departure from Jung. Why should I make that Socionics fault? It might have some faults and all of that, but this isn't one of them.

  2. #152
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    In short, I'm not going to willingly tag myself into the "emo" category.
    I don't know what your type is but as an SJ I just want to say that you have to ignore the stereotypes and just be who you are.

    There are lots of Feeler men who I've seen who aren't "emo".

  3. #153
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    There are lots of Feeler men who I've seen who aren't "emo".
    I'd agree..

    OTOH, I still don't think I'm one. Jaguar, for example, mentioned Blackcat's problem with some of these issues, as a way for me to relate: But Blackcat himself is not someone I relate to either. He's identified with 9, some of their passive-aggressiveness, things like that. He sounds like a cool, down to earth guy who would probably only resort to some things, as a last option.

    While I can't stress enough how much... umm..relational maladjustment I've been capable of living up to. None of it makes sense for ISFPs or INFPs. No matter how much any of you wish it or try to rationalize what Fi doms are, it doesn't really work imo.

  4. #154
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I'd agree..

    OTOH, I still don't think I'm one. Jaguar, for example, mentioned Blackcat's problem with some of these issues, as a way for me to relate: But Blackcat himself is not someone I relate to either. He's identified with 9, some of their passive-aggressiveness, things like that. He sounds like a cool, down to earth guy who would probably only resort to some things, as a last option.

    While I can't stress enough how much... umm..relational maladjustment I've been capable of living up to. None of it makes sense for ISFPs or INFPs. No matter how much any of you wish it or try to rationalize what Fi doms are, it doesn't really work imo.
    I could see ISTP for you. One thing I've noticed is that if an ISTP exhibits any sort of Feeling, it will appear to be of the Fi flavor. ISTPs are allergic to associating themselves with Fe (lol) . Which is completely different than ESTPs.

  5. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I think you're just an ISFP who's not a pussy.

    In fact, when I think of ISFP guys, I don't generally think of them being pussies.

    Maybe I think of a hipsterish vibe, a bit scraggly/unshaven, but not necessarily a pussy.

    You have a dude with some balls who's an Fi dom and, well, I don't think he's gotta be feminine at all.

    I don't know if I understand what you're talking about, but, if I do, I don't think you should let that nudge you into T over F.

    Frankly, the ironic thing is, the only emo thing I can think of you doing is choosing ISTP over ISFP for the rationale you laid out...
    I guess you are talking to me here. To be honest I can't remember why I started the thread either. I was just thinking about my type and started it on a whim. Lately I think esfp fits my outlook a little better. I don't fit the esfp stereotype, too laid back. It does tend to fit me best overall at how I am looking at things though.

    I don't have an issue with F vs T in terms of manliness and all that. It was more that sometimes I see my thinking in that way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    There isn't a goddamn thing wrong with being SFP.
    Damn right.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I'm not here to talk about myself too much (it is Wolfy's thread, after all)
    Knock yourself out. I'm in it for the conversation.

  6. #156
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Wolfy and KDude, I think the type you both are is whatever type you say you are since you know yourself best.

  7. #157
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    Sounds like a plan.
    Didn't you go with 9w8? That explains more about the social behavior you described. In that case I would choose Fe as auxiliary.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #158
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Wolfy and KDude, I think the type you both are is whatever type you say you are since you know yourself best.
    Thanks... For the record, I don't have much of a problem with my typing. I have general issues with parts of MBTI theory, that I like to rant about when I drink coffee. Issues that could change my type, but.. that's common on this site. I'm only talking about myself because it was brought up by Jag and Zara. And they're questioning it based off of past typings. I don't think that's much to go on. I know two other STPs who typed as INFP at one point. They're both female and older, but I'm not sure that makes a difference.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I don't think throwing it out makes sense because I keep reminding myself what the culprit might be: What I mentioned about Myers and her redefining of Fi/Ti introverts. I can't find any other situation that made such an intentional departure from Jung. Why should I make that Socionics fault? It might have some faults and all of that, but this isn't one of them.
    See, this just doesn't seem like a very big issue to me.

    Whenever you talk about it as if it is, I kinda just scratch my head.

    To me, I see the J/P notational difference of Socionics as very meaningful.

    But I also think the J/P notational method of MBTI is meaningful as well.

    ENTJs and INTPs have a certain something in common: they're both T-doms, and a certain Jness does result from this.

    Hence the threads I made a long time ago about NTJ vs NTP, ENTJ vs INTJ, INTJ vs INTP "closed-mindedness". I don't think INTPs are all open-minded like many think they are, and I think the notational differences between MBTI and Socionics alone shed a lot of light on this fact. Hell, check out my signature.

    But is that really that big of a deal? I mean, *boom*, that's it. I just don't see it as impacting my understanding all that much.

    I accept both notational methods as being meaningful.

    I mean, let's be real, ENTJs and INTPs might have some kind of similarity, but ENTJs and INTJs have a hell of a lot more similarity.

    Using the MBTI notation, you get to group INTJs and ENTJs as NTJs, and ENTPs and INTPs as NTPs, with just introversion/extroversion dividing them from their opposite-attitude counterpart within their grouping; same goes for all 8 groups that share their last three letters; and I think that's important.

    Using the Socionics notation, you lose that, as you can't really group INTjs (INTPs) and ENTjs (ENTJs), and ENTps (ENTPs) and INTps (INTjs), and so on, together, at least based on their last three letters and which functions they use. A such, in Socionics (unlike MBTI), if someone is on the border of introversion/extroversion (which, as we all know, a lot of people are), you can't just plop a nice "x" at the front, and get xNTJ or xNTP or xSFP or xSTP. Instead, one would flip between INTp and ENTj, INTj and ENTp, ISFj and ESFp, and ISFp and ESFj. You completely lose that introversion/extroversion, last three letter grouping. I mean, I think it's extremely valuable, meaningful and useful to be able to group two types who use the same functions (and thus the same functional axes), and whose only difference is their degree of introversion/extroversion.

    So, understanding the notational differences between MBTI and Socionics is important, as both methodologies shed light on the truth.

    But if conversion between the two systems yields people who use one set of functions in one system using a completely different set of functions in the other system, then, well, then it just becomes problematic. I know model A is more complicated than just 4 "normal" functions in a particular order, and 4 "shadow" functions in a particular order, so it doesn't work out that cleanly, but, frankly, that's when I just decide to throw it out, cuz if you're telling me that in the development of two theoretical offshoots that have the same source material, all of a sudden introverted sensing in one has become extroverted sensing in the other or whatever kind of crap people try to claim about why ISFPs are actually the same as ISFps (etc.), even though their top two functions are FiSe and SiFe, respectively, well, I can't buy it, cuz it just serves to muck everything up. Either they're both meaningless, or one of em's meaningless, and, frankly, I find plenty of utility in my understanding of typology, which is informed, to varying degrees, by many of the offshoots (as well as Jung himself), but certainly MBTI more than Socionics.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    OTOH, I still don't think I'm one. Jaguar, for example, mentioned Blackcat's problem with some of these issues, as a way for me to relate: But Blackcat himself is not someone I relate to either. He's identified with 9, some of their passive-aggressiveness, things like that. He sounds like a cool, down to earth guy who would probably only resort to some things, as a last option.
    Well, that's fine that you can't relate to him, but that doesn't mean you're not an ISFP.

    There's so much differentiation within type, and you already know that you're different enneagram types.

    I mean, nuff said. I don't see how that's anywhere close to a disqualifying factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    While I can't stress enough how much... umm..relational maladjustment I've been capable of living up to. None of it makes sense for ISFPs or INFPs.
    I'm not quite sure what this means... relational maladjustment?

    Are you talking about making mistakes and learning from them?

    If so, I can't tell you how many discussions I've had with EFPs who say the exact same thing.

    It's practically their motto: "Oh, yeah, I never knew what to do. I just did shit, and made mistakes. I learned what not to do."

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    No matter how much any of you wish it or try to rationalize what Fi doms are, it doesn't really work imo.
    Honestly, I really don't think I'm rationalizing here.

    I genuinely think you're an SFP.

    Same for Wolfy, too.

    And it's not just cuz of previous typings.

    Fuck, you've changed your type a bunch of times, and, each time, I'm like, "Dude, you're an SFP."

    And that's not what I do for everyone. For plenty of people, I'm like, "You're not that type", or, "I don't know what type you are".

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I guess you are talking to me here.
    Uhhh, I was actually talking to KDude.

    But I was trying to make it generalizable enough to your situation so that you might find some interest in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    Knock yourself out. I'm in it for the conversation.


    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Thanks... For the record, I don't have much of a problem with my typing. I have general issues with parts of MBTI theory, that I like to rant about when I drink coffee. Issues that could change my type, but.. that's common on this site. I'm only talking about myself because it was brought up by Jag and Zara. And they're questioning it based off of past typings. I don't think that's much to go on.
    Honestly, I don't think I'm really going based off past typings.

    I genuinely consider the possibility that you're ISTP every time I read your writing.

    And maybe you are; hell, I've never hung out with you in real life.

    It's just, part of me always feels like SFP is the reality.


  10. #160
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I'm not quite sure what this means... relational maladjustment?

    Are you talking about making mistakes and learning from them?
    No, I'm talking about being bad with people. And no, not in some "scruffy, hipster, individualist 'hero' of the story" kind of way. As much as that'd be cool.

    I'd love to give examples of what I mean, but... actually, no.. I wouldn't love it. It's a waste of time.

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