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  1. #31
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    I make it a point to not make concrete plans... because honestly, I'm likely to not stick to them. I'm really about doing what I feel in the moment, and if I make plans to do something a week later, I may not be in the particular mood to do it at that time when it comes up. I may rather be by myself, or if we planned to go shopping, I may rather go for a hike or read a book or simply be lazy when it comes up. Who knows?

    Sometimes I avoid activities I think will make me feel uncomfortable.

    Sometimes, because I do prefer to go with the moment, I may make plans to hang out with someone one day, but the day before might get so worn out from unexpected last minute social interaction, that when it comes to fulfilling my plans with a friend, I might simply be too worn out from all the social activity and need to recharge.

    I think a lot of my extroverted friends have gotten used to this, and usually just tell me to give them a call on such and such day if I feel like doing such and such activity and that we'll work it out from there. This is usually the best option to work with, allowing me to have more control in the situation and them not being tied down to the plan either in the case that I decide to do something else. This way they're allowed to make other plans, too.

    It's not that ISFP's, INFP's and INTP's are shy or flaky, we simply need more time to be by ourselves and recharge and want to only involve ourselves in situations we know we'll feel comfortable in. If I'm not fully recharged, then I won't be much fun and therefore won't feel very comfortable. :P And because we're perceivers and not judgers... schedules are kind of a fail.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
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  2. #32
    Ginkgo
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    Yeah, why not? If someone as an aversion to people, it's likely they'll not want to show up when you ask them to. However, it also depends on the context of the person's fears. Some people don't mind one on one interaction while others thrive otherwise. Shyness is a pretty volatile emotion. T.N.T.

    Then again, if someone is highly extraverted, then they may flake because they are being lured away by some other activity.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    Ugh, lost enough friends? That is so wasteful and inefficient. Can't I fuss at you for not showing and you have some epiphany of "OH HAI THAT'S WHAT I DID WRONG" and then just not do it again?
    Ya know, it should be obvious. You'd think. But I guess if your getting a pattern of concrete commitment and bailouts you could be the wiser of the two and suggest that they ONLY say "for sure" if they mean it. Let them know that it hurts you and fux up your ability to do things. If you truly open to them hitting you up at the last minute, let them understand this. But I tell you, ime J's DO NOT like to operate at this level for long. It's just as uncomfortable for the J to not plan as it is the P to plan. THis is why I say alot of compromise needs to take place, and what it really comes down to for the FI doms is "value". Do they value you enough to follow through? Do you value their friendship enough to let shit slide? It's a tough balance to strike.

    Edit: Theres really two ways of going about this. You either decide that your just not compatible as friends and cut the tie, or you use it as an opportunity for growth (and they do the same.)
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  4. #34
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    It's not that ISFP's, INFP's and INTP's are shy or flaky, we simply need more time to be by ourselves and recharge and want to only involve ourselves in situations we know we'll feel comfortable in. If I'm not fully recharged, then I won't be much fun and therefore won't feel very comfortable. :P And because we're perceivers and not judgers... schedules are kind of a fail.
    To clarify, it wasn't my intent to state that ISFPs, INFPs and INTPs are flakes. I had said that most of the very shy people I know seem to have this behavior, and the people I am currently experiencing with are also those three types. Personality trait first, type second, is how I intended it, in case it was a type thing. I'm not trying to place blame, I just noticed a pattern and wanted to explore the idea and see what the experiences of others are on this matter.
    Never wrestle with a pig. You will get dirty and the pig will enjoy it.



  5. #35
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I fucking HATE when they do that shit. Especially when the day before, that same person will have been complaining about how no one invites them out to do anything. I have an ISFP friend who did this exact fucking thing; I thought by inviting her to our outings, she'd be thrilled (even after having cancelled on multiple occasions for no goddamn reason), but the ISFP simply refused to leave her apartment. I think it can be chalked up purely to social anxiety, which I can understand (it's a bitch, I know), but don't go around complaining that you're bored at 10pm when you deliberately declined a perfectly good opportunity to socialize and have fun.

    Sometime I think I'm an extrovert compared to these people (which I may very well be.)
    I think the problem here is not knowing how to reach out to the shy and socially anxious person. Sounds like he/she wants friends and company and good time, but throwing them into a group setting may not be the best way to get them out. Hanging out with one to two other people may seem more like his/her kind of good time. Maybe suggest pizza and renting a movie? Oh, and I would also suggest doing it spur of the moment and last minute. They may be more likely to go for it.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  6. #36
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    To clarify, it wasn't my intent to state that ISFPs, INFPs and INTPs are flakes. I had said that most of the very shy people I know seem to have this behavior, and the people I am currently experiencing with are also those three types. Personality trait first, type second, is how I intended it, in case it was a type thing. I'm not trying to place blame, I just noticed a pattern and wanted to explore the idea and see what the experiences of others are on this matter.
    I wasn't going off on this particular point... it would make sense if people felt this way about IxxP types, having the introverted desire for alone time and perceiver tendency to not stick to schedules and plans.

    I'd like to however separate the two words shy and flaky, however. I don't think I could deem a person that is shy to be a flake. If a person genuinely feels uncomfortable in social situations, then the person who is trying to reach out to the shy one needs to find a new tactic to get them out of their shell. A person is a flake if they are a flake, but not because they suffer from social anxiety. The person with social anxiety may simply find the interaction too scary and intimidating to follow through.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  7. #37
    A window to the soul
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    I'm thinking it may depend on what you're flaking on. I'm an intensely chatty extrovert and I'm never a flake when someone has made plans with me; extroverts tend to want to go when they're invited to fun events or just spending time with friends. I've only experienced this problem of flaking on personal/social commitments primarily in the people I've known who could be considered shy, who also tend to be IxxPs.
    How old is your friend? If she's older than 12, I doubt she's afraid to say "no" to her friend. Let's fill in the blank with a likely scenario: it's allergy season around the country and she's probably not feeling well. Being that she's introverted and shy, she's not the best communicator of issues, but if in doubt, ask her for yourself. I don't think there's any great mystery to be solved here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Shyness is a pretty volatile emotion. T.N.T.

    Then again, if someone is highly extraverted, then they may flake because they are being lured away by some other activity.
    Agreed, 100%.

  8. #38
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    I wasn't going off on this particular point... it would make sense if people felt this way about IxxP types, having the introverted desire for alone time and perceiver tendency to not stick to schedules and plans.

    I'd like to however separate the two words shy and flaky, however. I don't think I could deem a person that is shy to be a flake. If a person genuinely feels uncomfortable in social situations, then the person who is trying to reach out to the shy one needs to find a new tactic to get them out of their shell. A person is a flake if they are a flake, but not because they suffer from social anxiety. The person with social anxiety may simply find the interaction too scary and intimidating to follow through.
    And here's where I feel the need to back up just a bit to keep from over-focusing on the aspect of social anxiety in regards to this issue.

    I agree, social anxiety is an awful thing to deal with. I myself have a social anxiety issue that has to do with crowds, and I always have to decline when people invite me to events involving more than roughly 20 people. Having a panic attack in front of friends is an uncomfortable and embarrassing experience, so the solution is usually to find something else to do that evening. So, when it comes to the discomforts of social anxiety, I genuinely understand and am sympathetic when I see it in other people.

    But, although a person could flake because of social anxiety and shy people could be socially anxious, that doesn't mean that shy people who flake suffer from that particular affliction. For example, the people I initially used as an example are not socially anxious at all. I'd describe them as more submissive or scatter-brained or commitment-avoidant or so focused on their own feelings and experiences that they don't even occur to them to consider that their actions might affect other people. I'm not saying selfish, there, just maybe lacking perspective.

    For the purposes of this thread, shy and flaky do need to stay connected, because that's the aspect I started this thread to discuss. There's no doubt that non-shy people can be flaky; I'm not arguing that it's exclusively a shy thing. I'm just exploring the pattern I've noticed that shy people could potentially be a higher flake risk because of various reasons, such as their general tendency to be hesitant or nervous, or maybe there's an aspect of conflict-avoidance in agreeing to things they're not 100% into, etc. It may not be a flattering comparison but it's one I've nonetheless noticed over the years.

    Finding new ways to interact with and approach this sort of person is another reason for starting this thread. Hearing the perspectives and experiences of other people allows me to chew on ideas and thought processes I would never have considered because that's just not how I work. @Huxley3112's replies have been pretty helpful so far.
    Never wrestle with a pig. You will get dirty and the pig will enjoy it.



  9. #39
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    How old is your friend? If she's older than 12, I doubt she's afraid to say "no" to her friend. Let's fill in the blank with a likely scenario: it's allergy season around the country and she's probably not feeling well. Being that she's introverted and shy, she's not the best communicator of issues, but if in doubt, ask her for yourself. I don't think there's any great mystery to be solved here.
    Allergy season? Now you're just pointlessly projecting real-world scenarios that could or could not exist into the conversation. Duh, if she wasn't feeling well, she'd tell me. Like you said, she's older than 12. That would be an actual and reasonable excuse to cancel any plans because it's not exactly something that can be controlled. But a person is not miraculously suffering from some sort of illness everytime plans fall through.

    I've known lots of people who are afraid to say "no" to their friends. It has less to do with real fear of their friends than it has to do with their own anxiety over letting people down. And outright asking for an explanation does not mean that I'm going to get an honest answer. Timid people are not exactly known for fearlessly bearing their souls on command.
    Never wrestle with a pig. You will get dirty and the pig will enjoy it.



  10. #40
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    All my _ _ FP friends are flaky
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