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  1. #41
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    I didn't ask for girly handwriting it just sort of turned out that way. My teacher & mother had very pretty writing. I know ENFJs learn best through emulation so I assume that is how it came to be . I remember how excited I was as a child that I was going to be learning cursive. I wanted to be able to decipher what I couldn't make out of adult handwriting! The adults wouldn't be able to get anything over on me now!!! I remember this was shortly after I figured out (and didn't tell them ) they were using 'pig latin' to say things to one another. I had to put a stop to my secret when I discovered in about 3rd/4th grade some of the comments my dad was making to my mom were grossly sexual in nature . (Too much information ...yes I know!) I am like proteanmix though in that my handwriting reflects my moods. I know when I am angry there are lots of exclamation points, rushed it's sloppy for me and sad/reflective lots of commas and (.........).
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  2. #42
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    I never said that IPs are better than EJs... simply that Ti focuses better than Te and Fi better than Fi... generally all fucntions are strengthened by introversion (Ti is more analytical than Te... Fi reads the personal entities better than Fe)... but not all is lost... Ni generates better insights than Ne...however..
    You're doing it again. You explain Ti/Fi in terms of what it can do and Te/Fe in terms of what it can't. Look at the language you use.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Ti concentrates better because it does not need external stimuli to stay focused... notice how the absent minded professor Einstein(IP)... when focusing so hard... he was focusing on whatever he was thinking about... this is exactly why INTPs are absent-minded... they focus hard on what they are thinking about... ENTJs also concentrate hard... but not quite as much... I suggest that you stop taking it all so personally as my post(as most of them are) was nearly entirely devoid of personal content.
    I'm not taking anything personally, I'm just calling your attention to what you do in your posts. You are biased in favor of most introverted functions (except Si) because you think they're better than extroverted functions (except Ne). You just did it above and I underlined it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    All I was saying is that Ti is more focused than Te, and another reason why this is so is because Introverted functions have an easier time dealing with a small amount of variables than extroverted. Extroverted functions are more likely to be distracted because they deal with more input.
    I can switch that sentence around and say "Extroverted functions have an easier time dealing with a large amount of variables than introverted," and frame my whole argument around what introverted functions can't do. So in that sense, you're not wrong, but you approach it such a way that makes it difficult to prove when you're not right.

    Simpatico?

  3. #43
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    You're doing it again. You explain Ti/Fi in terms of what it can do and Te/Fe in terms of what it can't. Look at the language you use.



    I'm not taking anything personally, I'm just calling your attention to what you do in your posts. You are biased in favor of most introverted functions (except Si) because you think they're better than extroverted functions (except Ne). You just did it above and I underlined it.



    I can switch that sentence around and say "Extroverted functions have an easier time dealing with a large amount of variables than introverted," and frame my whole argument around what introverted functions can't do. So in that sense, you're not wrong, but you approach it such a way that makes it difficult to prove when you're not right.

    Simpatico?
    I really think that the only thing that matters is what you say and not how you say it...

    I dont get how it would be difficult to prove that what I said wasnt true because of the way I said it... objective statements can be perceived for what they are... I dont see why the presenter's tastes and prejudices should matter..


    And I said that Ni works better than Ne ... so in that case you should add that I am also biased in favor of Ni...
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    My brother, an ESTJ, I think, has near-perfect handwriting, just like they taught him in elementary school.
    I distinctly remember handwriting practice in 4th grade. I was vaguely interested because it gave me opportunity to be creative and try out different styles. Until my teacher made red Xs on my paper and told me it was wrong--then I was just angry.

    Who was she to decide which way was right for me to express myself? I'd seen enough different types of handwriting to know there was no One Perfect Way to write. And who was it who wrote these stupid examples that we were supposed to copy, anyway? I imagined a person with perfect penmanship being asked to fill up sheets with his handwriting so little kids could learn to write like him.

    I clenched my teeth in disgust and vowed under my breath not to bow to the tyrrany of arrogant handwriting-elitists. Then, day after day, I filled up sheets with my own style writing, refusing to correct a single letter that my teacher marked "wrong".

    Yeah, I've always been an INFJ with a cause...

  5. #45
    Senior Member outmywindow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faith View Post
    I clenched my teeth in disgust and vowed under my breath not to bow to the tyrrany of arrogant handwriting-elitists. Then, day after day, I filled up sheets with my own style writing, refusing to correct a single letter that my teacher marked "wrong".
    I was like that with spelling tests. I distinctly recall intentionally spelling "color" as "colour" on a 2nd grade test just to see what the teacher would do. I also insisted (hell, I still insist) on spelling "gray" as "grey," which looks infinitely more correct to me, and is apparently the way they spell it in British English.

    As for handwriting, well, that was not my best subject back when it was actually grade-able.
    INTP

  6. #46
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faith View Post
    I distinctly remember handwriting practice in 4th grade. I was vaguely interested because it gave me opportunity to be creative and try out different styles. Until my teacher made red Xs on my paper and told me it was wrong--then I was just angry.

    Who was she to decide which way was right for me to express myself? I'd seen enough different types of handwriting to know there was no One Perfect Way to write. And who was it who wrote these stupid examples that we were supposed to copy, anyway? I imagined a person with perfect penmanship being asked to fill up sheets with his handwriting so little kids could learn to write like him.

    I clenched my teeth in disgust and vowed under my breath not to bow to the tyrrany of arrogant handwriting-elitists. Then, day after day, I filled up sheets with my own style writing, refusing to correct a single letter that my teacher marked "wrong".

    Yeah, I've always been an INFJ with a cause...
    :yim_rolling_on_the_ I knew I liked you. I didn't have that kind of spirit at that age. My family got involved with trying to improve my handwriting, including my beloved grandpa who had beautiful handwriting. Even he gave up on me.

    My first job out of high school taught me to write quickly and to write neatly, though I've never been able to do both at the same time. When I took work orders over the phone, I'd scribble just as fast as I could, then immediately recopy it onto a new work order sheet so the guys could read it. I even developed my own shorthand for taking directions and it all worked out pretty well most of the time.

    My ESTJ brother's kids are home schooled and he makes the poor things work diligently on their penmanship. :eek:
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #47
    respect the brick C.J.Woolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faith View Post
    I clenched my teeth in disgust and vowed under my breath not to bow to the tyrrany of arrogant handwriting-elitists. Then, day after day, I filled up sheets with my own style writing, refusing to correct a single letter that my teacher marked "wrong".

    Yeah, I've always been an INFJ with a cause...
    Good for you.

    I was a good little student, but the first time I got less than an A was in penmanship, for the same reason. I just wanted my handwriting to look better. Case in point: the cursive capital Q. The "correct" one looks more like an L! Stooooopid!

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by outmywindow View Post
    I was like that with spelling tests. I distinctly recall intentionally spelling "color" as "colour" on a 2nd grade test just to see what the teacher would do.
    Ha! I can see you doing that. Poor little second grade teacher with a determined INTP in her class...

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    :yim_rolling_on_the_ I knew I liked you. I didn't have that kind of spirit at that age. My family got involved with trying to improve my handwriting, including my beloved grandpa who had beautiful handwriting. Even he gave up on me.
    That's because in 4th grade you were much too busy with your own NF causes to worry about such trivials as handwriting.

  9. #49
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faith View Post
    That's because in 4th grade you were much too busy with your own NF causes to worry about such trivials as handwriting.
    They were teaching us cursive in first grade for some reason. Maybe that's part of my problem.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #50
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    I evidently invented my own style of handwriting altogether, since I begin writing letters from the wrong place, join words idiosyncratically and have a unique scrawl all to myself.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

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