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  1. #11
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Corporations are so ubiquitous that it's hard to blame anyone for using their products, even if someone hates what corporations do and believes they should change their way or be gotten rid of.

    Look at it this way, anyone in a country dominated by an authoritarian, totalitarian government will almost certainly have to utilized government services and products in the process of protesting or rebelling against the government. Is there hypocrisy there?

    My own belief is that in just about any matter where private business and commercial motives should exist, a cooperative would be preferable to a corporation. There are also areas that are currently run solely by private business that I think should perhaps be handled publicly anyway. Right now I can buy things from a corporation because it's my only real option, but still be aware that I'd prefer the alternative and work toward that goal.
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  2. #12
    ThatGirl
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    What is the alternative?

  3. #13

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    I've seen the anti-protest protests like that photo, and they're intellectually dishonest and disingenuous. "OMG you use products, you are a hypocrite!" Try living without purchasing anything. More to the point, no one is saying that the manufacture and sale of products is inherently evil. What's evil is the way the people on Wall Street are purchasing legislation from our smiling representatives that allows them to put their boot on the neck of other people in the noble effort to go from billionaires to super-duper billionaires. Their efforts don't have anything to do with freedom or free enterprise, and it won't be long before they start to see people throwing rocks and looting instead of peacefully assembling.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

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  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Ah, why didn't they fire the heads of the banks? I mean if we are going to (or did) bail them out, we have some leverage.
    You would think so, wouldn't you? But we decided that wasn't necessary, because the banks crossed their heart and promised to be nice. And then promptly gave people bonuses for clusterfucking the system.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  5. #15
    ThatGirl
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    I don't think that is the corporations fault then. To be honest.

  6. #16
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    What is the alternative?
    It's written in the post.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #17
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It's written in the post.
    I was asking you to define it.

  8. #18
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Some snippets from wikipedia:

    The participants of the event are mainly protesting against social and economic inequality, corporate greed, and the influence of corporate money and lobbyists on government, among other concerns.[9][10] Adbusters states that, "Beginning from one simple demand – a presidential commission to separate money from politics – we start setting the agenda for a new America."[11] The protest's organizers hope that the protesters themselves will formulate their own specific demands, expecting them to be focused on "taking to task the people who perpetrated the economic meltdown."[12][13][14]
    ...proposed a peaceful occupation of Wall Street to protest corporate influence on democracy, address a growing disparity in wealth, and the absence of legal repercussions behind the recent global financial crisis.[40] According to the senior editor of the magazine, “[they] basically floated the idea in mid-July into our [email list] and it was spontaneously taken up by all the people of the world, it just kind of snowballed from there.”[40] Although it was originally proposed by Adbusters magazine, the demonstration is leaderless.[41]
    Despite the various lists of demands, some non-partisan groups and supporters of the protest have expressed concern that the proposed agenda items are not addressing some of the root causes. Political activist, Lawrence Lessig argues that the problems on Wall Street is because of corruption in Washington that has been perpetuated by a deep conflict of interests. He further states that because both parties depend on Wall Street's money to fund their campaigns, they will not dare to cross the interests of Wall Street.[50][10][51][52]
    "Does anyone really not know what the basic message is of this protest: that Wall Street is oozing corruption and criminality and its unrestrained political power—in the form of crony capitalism and ownership of political institutions—is destroying financial security for everyone else?"[59]
    The protests have brought together people of many political positions including liberals,[63] political independents,[64] socialists,[63] conservatives,[64] anarchists,[64] and libertarians.[63]
    I think their concerns are completely legitimate. I don't know what the solution is when the system is built on corruption. If you remove the corruption all at once, the system collapses. This is why the banks had to be bailed out to avoid catastrophe. That alone indicates we have a very serious problem. Bailing out the culprits is seriously f'd up.

  9. #19
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    2. A corporation can commit an abuse before, during, or after producing a product. Producing a product does not absolve the abuse, nor does the use of a product condone an abuse.

    3. Who is protesting corporations?
    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    There's a difference between having a problem with the way in which people practice x and the entire x as a whole.

    I have a problem with parents who give their kids significant volumes of alcohol at eight years old but it doesn't mean I have a problem with parents.
    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Exactly.
    No one is protesting corporations.

    The few idiots that do that are equivalent to the idiots cheering at the Republican primary when someone dies because of a lack of health care. Those people are so tangential to the reasonable discussion that there's no point in bringing them into the conversation because there is no critical thinking going on there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Corporations are so ubiquitous that it's hard to blame anyone for using their products, even if someone hates what corporations do and believes they should change their way or be gotten rid of.

    Look at it this way, anyone in a country dominated by an authoritarian, totalitarian government will almost certainly have to utilized government services and products in the process of protesting or rebelling against the government. Is there hypocrisy there?

    My own belief is that in just about any matter where private business and commercial motives should exist, a cooperative would be preferable to a corporation. There are also areas that are currently run solely by private business that I think should perhaps be handled publicly anyway. Right now I can buy things from a corporation because it's my only real option, but still be aware that I'd prefer the alternative and work toward that goal.
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I've seen the anti-protest protests like that photo, and they're intellectually dishonest and disingenuous. "OMG you use products, you are a hypocrite!" Try living without purchasing anything. More to the point, no one is saying that the manufacture and sale of products is inherently evil. What's evil is the way the people on Wall Street are purchasing legislation from our smiling representatives that allows them to put their boot on the neck of other people in the noble effort to go from billionaires to super-duper billionaires. Their efforts don't have anything to do with freedom or free enterprise, and it won't be long before they start to see people throwing rocks and looting instead of peacefully assembling.
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    You would think so, wouldn't you? But we decided that wasn't necessary, because the banks crossed their heart and promised to be nice. And then promptly gave people bonuses for clusterfucking the system.
    Exactly. +10000000000000.

    If you want an example of neoliberalism run freely (which, BTW, requires an authoritarian government to implement...that's not just an unhappy coincidence), just look at what the fucking Chicago school did to Chile in the 70's. It's not a pretty picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    I think their concerns are completely legitimate. I don't know what the solution is when the system is built on corruption. If you remove the corruption all at once, the system collapses. This is why the banks had to be bailed out to avoid catastrophe.
    Yes. Maybe we could take a page out of their books and capitalize on (or create) public trauma.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  10. #20
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    And one for some of those other folks.



    I have to say, I don't think anyone is protesting "Corporations" as an ideal. People are saying "hey, maybe we should make it so Goldman-Sachs doesn't fuck us at every whim and corporate money is pumped into our legislators like shit from an RV into a sewer." You'd have to be damn extreme to say "no corporations should exist at all period."
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

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