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  1. #61
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Kekeke, I noticed this when I saw one of the newer 'prequels'. Some of the writing in the story was just bad. I watched one of the movies in the theater right when it came out (first night) and it was packed. There's a point where Natalie Portman's Princess Leia is knocked off some space scooter looking thing and hits the sand and rolls off. Then a few seconds later some red shirt (I know, wrong universe, same concept "random space extra") guard approaches her and asks "are you okay" and she dusts herself off and says, "yes I'm fine" and then walks off.

    I swear to gawd, 75% of the theater erupted into twitters, and not the favorable kind. We were all snickering at how completely pointless and poorly executed that entire scene was and just ridiculous. First time I've experienced that watching a movie where we're laughing at how poorly done something is. It was a ham job.
    Yeah, that's basically "empty action," I've experienced it as a writer. There are things that might happen in real life that you don't bother to put in a story or script because it contributes nothing whatsoever to the story. It's like putting empty calories in your diet. It's flat, empty, and trivial, and when you've only got two hours to tell a story, there's no room to fill a movie with that kind of crap. It's the kind of thing you learn not to do in the early stages of a writing/scripting career, and if you keep doing it, I think it's indicative of not really having the chops for the work. It's also indicative that he was pretty much writing his own ticket and had no one to come down on him, which can sometimes be very bad if the writer has a large ego.

    I could only watch the prequels once, and I remember a lot of them being like that... along with either very flat or very histrionic performances.

    Carrie Fisher joked that George Lucas was a terrible director, not good with his staff, gave no direction, and thought of actors as "meat" and would basically yell "now do it!"
    To be fair to Lucas, he's not really a movie director, he's an art director. Then again, if he wants to bill himself as a movie director, I guess he has to take some heat.

    Personally, I love Dune but that series is cerebral, dystopic, ginormous, and a bit too 'hard core' sci fi to turn in a successful modern series of movies.
    Yeah, I don't think it was as accessible to the main stream... especially with David Lynch directing that movie.

    I think for Star Wars, Lucas can be contributed with "look and feel" as his primary contribution to the world and setting, but his franchise has done consistently better when it's handed off to someone else in terms of story and acting and drama.

    Quote Originally Posted by 93JC View Post
    Didn't really care for Vertigo. Just didn't buy into the relationship between Novak and Stewart's characters.
    However, North by Northwest is the shiznit.
    I tried to watch some of those movies. I try to respect them as I would if I were someone from that time period who had never seen more modern movies before. I remember liking Rear Window, but the rest I guess I'm just oversaturated by the modern thriller; they all felt very tame and mostly flat. At least usually there was some good banter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
    Besides, 'Enterprise' sucked ass, apart from T'Pol.
    I never really watched the "Enterprise" one; I do want to go through "Deep Space 9" when it comes out on Netflix next month.

    I remember really like ST:TNG at that time in my life (my early/mid-20's) when it first airing, but eventually I kind of felt like the episodes were too neatly packaged and the performances too sculpted/controlled. I like things more organic, I guess. Still, I go back and watch some of the episodes again that I really liked (typically stuff with Q; or episodes like Tapestry or The Gift; or the few episodes with K'Aylar and where Worf goes after Duras... wow.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #62
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    Wow. I don't defend Lucas for pretty much anything, but WTF? Do you know how rudimentary visual effects were in 1977? What was accomplished in this movie was amazing. And if you want to complain that a sci-fi movie with a neurotic robot, something called "the Force", a spaceship-piloting Bigfoot, and that double-bun haircut didn't hew closely enough to the laws of physics, then I wonder how you manage to enjoy anything at all. This is exhibit 1-A in the case of why George Lucas went off on those people, even if those people in particular were not worthy targets.
    "Yoda dropping down from the ceiling" was in reference to a scene in a prequel. I don't recall that happening in the original three. Most of the spectacular CGI comes from the prequels. But the original three have been CGI'd almost to death. And yes, some of the CGI is really, really bad, thus the complaints you mentioned.

    Sorry you didn't like my comment above, the intensity of my complaints was intended partially as humor since I really don't care that much about Star Wars.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  3. #63
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    He wrote and directed the first Star Wars (A New Hope). The Empire Strikes Back was my least favourite of the original trilogy where he didn't write or direct it. Return of the Jedi was much better than Empire and he was involved in the writing of the screenplay. He's got way, way more talent in his little finger than Michael Bay.
    Why is Empire your least favorite? The second in a series is supposed to be a downer. Was it the long, boring sequences with Yoda training young Luke?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #64
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Why is Empire your least favorite? The second in a series is supposed to be a downer. Was it the long, boring sequences with Yoda training young Luke?
    Wow, I missed that comment.

    @Jenaphor: What's up with this? What's the reasoning? I felt like Return was much fluffier than Empire and kind of a "wimp out" in many ways. (I did, however, enjoy the storming of Jabba's fortress and Luke finally showing himself coming into his own.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #65
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Never really thought about why I enjoyed the first and last, more than the middle since "feel" of these movies was imprinted during childhood. But I did really enjoy the yoda elements.

  6. #66
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    I was also one of the ones who didn't appreciate Empire until I got a bit older. My favorite was Return of the Jedi for a long time because Luke wasn't useless, moar lightsaberz, Emperor shot fucking lightning out of his hands, and the Battle for Endor space battle was incredible. I'd watch that on repeat alone.

    For my 8 year old brain Empire was shitty because it didn't have a great space battle and Han and Leia were doing who knows what, saying all this boring stuff like "I love you."

    But now I probably like it the most out of all of them.



  7. #67
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    Count me among those whose favourite when he was a kid was Return of the Jedi but by the time he was in his teens came to appreciate The Empire Strikes Back more.

    Here's an article from the blog MacGuffin posted earlier that, I think, best sums up the journey in the film's development: http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/savingstarwars.html

    The TL;DR summary is as follows: for the original trilogy's re-release in 1997 Lucasfilm along with ILM and other companies specializing in film restoration went back to the original negative (the film stock that actually passed through the cameras when shooting the movie) of the first film and found it was in extremely poor condition. They did a lot of work to repair the damage to the negative by using other sources (colour masters, the first positive and the first negative, from which the theatrical release negatives were made) to recombine, refine and correct the problems that resulted from the handling and deterioration of the film stock itself. But instead of making new interpositive and internegative copies based on this restored negative they added the digital effects. And when I say they added the digital effects, they spliced them into the original negative.

    The 1997 "Special Edition" was based on this revised 'original' negative. By 2004 the movie was digitized to 1080p HD and the colour corrected again (because it was based on the original negative), and all subsequent editions (INCLUDING THE BLU-RAY RELEASE!!) are based on a 1080p 'virtual' negative. (The DVD release of the original theatrical versions I mentioned earlier is a copy of the 1993 LaserDisc release; notably they weren't anamorphic because the LaserDisc was optimized for 4:3 TVs instead of the 16:9 widescreens of today.)

    What does this digitization mean? It means the inherent resolution of the movie is worse than it was when it was new. With all of these digital additions and alterations has come a reduction in overall quality. Most DVD and Blu-Ray releases are based on a very, very high quality digital scan of the film, usually four to eight times higher resolution than 1080p. When they make the home release disc they compress it, but they work off of a high quality source. The defacto source of Star Wars is now a scan that is no better than Blu-Ray's display resolution. It's crap. It's 2 megapixels. 35 mm film doesn't have pixels of course, but the most recognized estimate of the digital resolution required to emulate it is up to 50 megapixels.

    (And FYI "Episodes" II and III were filmed with 1080p HD digital cameras, meaning because of the inherent resolution of these movies it will never, ever look better on some hypothetical future SuperHD home video system.)


    It is presumed by the blog article's author that the sections of the original negative that were removed from it and replaced with the digital effects for the 1997 theatrical release still exist, somewhere. Probably in Lucasfilm's studios, but perhaps even in George Lucas's basement. Hypothetically the original negative could be restored and new copies of the original movie could be made, but it would entail redoing most of the colour-correction work that was done in the mid '90s, work that is estimated to have cost $10-20 million. And who knows how badly the film has degraded since the mid '90s.

    Perhaps the most relevant passage in the article, a passage I want to quote, is this:

    However, it is also incredibly hard to imagine that Star Wars will never be restored to its original version. Perhaps it will take Lucas' passing to see this enacted--or perhaps not, given that he allowed the original versions to be released on DVD in 2006, even if they were just Laserdisk ports. In any case, I would be willing to bet a good amount of money that in some years in the future efforts were made to somehow save the original version of Star Wars--from Lucas himself, it may seem, as his Special Edition would have to be somehow worked around in gathering original elements.

    I happen to agree: I think it will take George Lucas dying to finally get a proper re-release of the original movies as they were presented in '77, '80 and '83.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    "With the up coming release of the blu ray star wars trilogy, George has added and changed these iconic films again. Here are a few examples of how changing the classics can ruin them. Enjoy."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #69
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    as far as I'm concerned, they are his movies. they are his brainchild and he owns the rights. as far as I'm concerned, he can do whatever the hell he wants


    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    I just pretend that there are no other Stars Wars films aside from the originals... Pretty easy fix.
    exactly!



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  10. #70
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    No way. We're not THAT intent on meddling and perfectionism. We'd get bored halfway through and go onto something else =)

    But im not sure i totally agree with the INTJ thing.

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
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