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  1. #61
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Since Ask Me threads are all the rage just now I'm giving this a bump. Ask away!
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  2. #62
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Are you Euro leftists as fundamentally self-loathing as the ones in the U.S.?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  3. #63
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Are you Euro leftists as fundamentally self-loathing as the ones in the U.S.?
    The main thing is that there is no such thing as a solid block of "Euro leftists". Not so much because of national divisions but because of internal differences. You know the Judean People's Front and the People's Front of Judea from The Life of Brian? Yeah, it's mostly like that.
    My own country is currently governed y a coalition of moderate conservatives and moderate neoliberals even though there is (or used to be) a liberal majority in the country because the moderate left and the greens won't form a coalition with the sort-of radical left. There are reasons for that, some of them good and some of them stupid. The situation may vary from country to country but there are parallels during the last 20 years or so: socialdemocrats moving more and more towards the center and small leftish parties splitting off.

    Anyway. You were asking about self-loathing. There is the internal differences I mentioned and then there is anti-nationalism (which doesn't have to be a bad thing per se). In Spain for example you have the right-left axis and then there is the centrist-regionalist axis which leaves you with 4 "teams" including an "anti-Spanish" left. There is also an internal movement within the German left called the Anti-Deutsche. They make it a point to bash their own country as much as possible and cheer whatever soccer team is playing their country because they associate it with its fascist past (in the case of former dictatorships like Germany or Spain, etc) or because the status quo is too removed from what they want so that they consider the existing country an enemy of sorts. Then again, here in Germany in the extreme left, there are those whose reasoning goes like this: Because of the holocaust we have to support the state of Israel unconditionally. The Palestinians and by extension all muslims are enemies of the Israel. Therefor, if you are anti-fascist (because fascism implies antisemitism and antisemitism is equated with anti-zionism) we have to oppose muslims everywhere to make good for the holocaust. Therefor we should, for example, have supported Serbia when it was under international attack for butchering muslims. Well, I might be exaggerating slightly, but there are people (including prominent journalists of the left) who argue like that. On the other hand you have those who say that the Palestinians are the new Jews and that we have to prevent a new holocaust by assisting them against the evil fascist zionist state that is commiting a genocide against Palestinians (this can also, by extension, mean unconditional support for muslim and arab countries everywhere against evil western imperialism). Or something like that. It is a real clusterfuck.

    Not sure if any of that qualifies as selfloathing.

    Sorry for focusing so much on Germany, but that's the country whose left I know best (my ex is a member of the radical left party and was a member of the Spanish communist party). Several Spanish friends of mine are either Commies or Arnachists. I myself identify more with the left wing of the Greens which is clearly left of center but worlds apart from his worldview.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  4. #64
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    50 kg (oh, and for god's sake, use the f*king metric system, will ya!)
    110 pounds.

    If you want a real question, what are Germany's grumpy old backwoods mountain men like?
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  5. #65
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post

    If you want a real question, what are Germany's grumpy old backwoods mountain men like?
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  6. #66
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    How do envision a good communist society?
    Do you think there would be any good incentive left for people to remain productive and specialized if their income level isn't really affected?

  7. #67
    Ginkgo
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    Dear German,

    Nutella is only okay.

  8. #68
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    How do envision a good communist society?
    Do you think there would be any good incentive left for people to remain productive and specialized if their income level isn't really affected?
    Ehmm, you do know that I am not a communist, right?

    Anyway, the standard answer would be that people have a natural drive to be active and productive and that people going by their natural talents and being allowed to explore those would leave you with a lot of people doing what they are really good at rather than what they could find to pay the rent.
    A communist would tell you that there are far more incentives in this world that just money. An ecologist would tell you that constant economic growth is madness and unsustainable. So is consumerism. Oh, and so would many religious people.
    So rather than get more and more and more stuff for the few it might be a good idea to concentrate ressources on getting every human being a roof over their head and a warm meal a day. Or something like that. The way things are going right now the gap is increasing in many parts of the world.



    This thread is turning far too serious
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
    A herring's blog
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  9. #69
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    I too belong to an often misunderstood minority
    leftists are not a minority here.
    we fukin won boys

  10. #70
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Why are there so many of these kinds of threads?

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