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  1. #41
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Basically its only whats currently in in fashion that woman are wearing. They are like chameleons imitating each other. When my girlfriend and me visit France, we always know what will be the next fashion thing over here, people are like drones without a brain. In a few years it will be in again to wear more clothes, maybe already next season, it's an up and down you'll never really be able to influence
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  2. #42
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    I'd like to answer from both sides.

    First, I've spent a total of about 4 months visiting Saudi Arabia. To many Saudi males, any exposed skin is "asking for it." My sister would cling to me saying, "Protect me from this people", since she was wearing an abaya (berka) that...God forbid...revealed her wrist and part of her neck or such. The men were litterally drooling with their mouths open, with a sparkling gleam in their eye.

    Further, the religious police there would go into bookstores and mark out exposed skin in magazines like National Geographic. They put black paint on billboards to cover women up. I experienced that first hand. However, I also heard stories that they also spray painted exposed skin on women if they revealed their ankles in public.

    Then on the other extreme, there are places in France where an entire family might go to the freaking post office naked...absolutely naked. There are nudist places.

    Yet, if a girl (of any age) dresses slutty, then there are some people who will see it as sexual. Some people will just wonder if the little girl is a slut. If there is a true predator, I believe he'd be more likely to take the girl who is more attractive to him, no matter what she's wearing. But if there were a choice between two girls of equal appearance, he'd probably definitely abduct and rape the one that's dressed a bit more slutty.

    So it's like swimming with sharks. They may bite you anyway, or not, but dressing slutty is like diving with sharks when you have a cut, or menustrating or when you've peed in your swimsuit. It's not necessarily true that the shark would bite you, but it is more likely if you "smell" attractive to him.

    My sister used to dress slutty, and she lived with different boy friends from the time she was 14. My parents were living in Saudi Arabia at the time.

    I was at Wal-mart the other day, and there were girls (probably younger that 15), who were dressed like those slutty dolls someone posted. One had a cute frog on the back of her t-shirt with the caption: "Your pad or mine." I mean....C'mon.

    If I apply for a business job, maybe it's important to wear a suit. If I apply for a job as farmer, maybe it's appropriate to dress that way...blue jeans maybe. The girls should be made to understand:

    1.) Some guys may be nicer to you because you're pretty or dressed pretty, but it may be because they have a boner, not because you are great person or smart. You may be a great person and smart too. Why do you want people to like you and appreciate you? Is it because of your looks (and their boner) or because you are a good, nice, smart, or whatever?

    2.) Dressing pretty might be dangerous. It never gives someone the excuse to touch you or give you any attention that seems wrong, but watch out because some primates will think that shit and act accordingly.

  3. #43
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    I find this ad (posted poster-sized at a local mall near work) to be borderline pedophilia:



    Am I being oversensitive to be weirded out by that?

    EDIT: part of my being disturbed is that the ad is targeting 15 year olds (at the low end). and I'm old enough to find the thought of marketing push-up bras to 15 year olds disturbing. Plus, having a poster-sized ad in the middle of the mall seems a little pornographic to me. I guess I'd feel the similarly about a full-sized A&F boy ad in the food court, too. Maybe it's just the tackiness.
    agreed...she looks too young and i don't think we should have half naked people on billboards...especially suggestive ones which that one isn't but i don't think kids should have to see two half naked adults hanging all over each other in the mall....it bugs me too.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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  4. #44
    nevermore lane777's Avatar
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    I don't think style of clothing is all that relevant here. A couple of my junior high girlfriends back in the 90's, would often show their midriff (then popularized by Britney Spears) which was highly controvertial and suggestive at the time. I can tell you these friends of mine never stated they were shooting for sexy, they would refer to their outfits as 'cute.' They were in fact; bright colors, fun frilly tops, youthful styles... but skin is skin. And even now, showing midriff will turn heads.

    If you're an attractive woman and you're showing enough skin, you're at a higher risk than those who dress modestly. Like BAJ said, "But if there were a choice between two girls of equal appearance, he'd probably definitely abduct and rape the one that's dressed a bit more slutty." I think that's a valid point. And I don't think it's constructive for women to gripe about not being able to wear whatever they want; because it won't change anything. Perverts are among us, women need to accept that fact and dress accordingly.

    If a woman is getting unwanted attention, she should consider if what she's wearing is part of the problem. Of course, a beautiful woman will get attention regardless of that, but depending on her dress, the effect it has on men and their reactions will probably be different. No, that doesn't excuse men from being pigs - as in, leering at you and dropping crass remarks, but you have no control over that. You can control what you wear though, to discourage that kind of negative attention.

    I've never understood those women who show cleavage and get flustered/insulted when a man looks at them, "My eyes are up here..." as though he's a perv when he could very well be a decent man, but is simply being a man. Personally, I think those women want men to look, but in order to keep their dignity, they deny they're seeking attention. And furthermore, they don't want him to gawk, they just want a glance, which is completely unrealistic. In cases like those, I can't help but feel badly for the guys Men are extremely visual, so in my opinion, women need to show consideration for that.
    To die would be an awfully big adventure - Peter Pan

    INFJ ~ 4w5 sp/sx ~ RLOAI ~ Inclusion e/w=1/0 (Melancholy Compulsive) Control: e/w=0/6 (Supine) Affection: e/w=4/0 (Phlegmatic Melancholy)

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomenclature View Post
    It's hard to draw the line, though.
    What line?

  6. #46
    Senior Member Nomenclature's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93JC View Post
    What line?
    Between "That's just what teens do" and "Oh my god, kids these days."

  7. #47
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAJ View Post
    I'd like to answer from both sides.

    First, I've spent a total of about 4 months visiting Saudi Arabia. To many Saudi males, any exposed skin is "asking for it." My sister would cling to me saying, "Protect me from this people", since she was wearing an abaya (berka) that...God forbid...revealed her wrist and part of her neck or such. The men were litterally drooling with their mouths open, with a sparkling gleam in their eye.

    Further, the religious police there would go into bookstores and mark out exposed skin in magazines like National Geographic. They put black paint on billboards to cover women up. I experienced that first hand. However, I also heard stories that they also spray painted exposed skin on women if they revealed their ankles in public.

    Then on the other extreme, there are places in France where an entire family might go to the freaking post office naked...absolutely naked. There are nudist places.

    Yet, if a girl (of any age) dresses slutty, then there are some people who will see it as sexual. Some people will just wonder if the little girl is a slut. If there is a true predator, I believe he'd be more likely to take the girl who is more attractive to him, no matter what she's wearing. But if there were a choice between two girls of equal appearance, he'd probably definitely abduct and rape the one that's dressed a bit more slutty.

    So it's like swimming with sharks. They may bite you anyway, or not, but dressing slutty is like diving with sharks when you have a cut, or menustrating or when you've peed in your swimsuit. It's not necessarily true that the shark would bite you, but it is more likely if you "smell" attractive to him.

    My sister used to dress slutty, and she lived with different boy friends from the time she was 14. My parents were living in Saudi Arabia at the time.

    I was at Wal-mart the other day, and there were girls (probably younger that 15), who were dressed like those slutty dolls someone posted. One had a cute frog on the back of her t-shirt with the caption: "Your pad or mine." I mean....C'mon.

    If I apply for a business job, maybe it's important to wear a suit. If I apply for a job as farmer, maybe it's appropriate to dress that way...blue jeans maybe. The girls should be made to understand:

    1.) Some guys may be nicer to you because you're pretty or dressed pretty, but it may be because they have a boner, not because you are great person or smart. You may be a great person and smart too. Why do you want people to like you and appreciate you? Is it because of your looks (and their boner) or because you are a good, nice, smart, or whatever?

    2.) Dressing pretty might be dangerous. It never gives someone the excuse to touch you or give you any attention that seems wrong, but watch out because some primates will think that shit and act accordingly.
    that's so crazy isn't it? at least for us that live in the states....and it's really terrifying as a woman. i've experienced that look that you mentioned..you feel like at any moment you're going to be yanked by the hair and drug off to some alley.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    that's so crazy isn't it? at least for us that live in the states....and it's really terrifying as a woman. i've experienced that look that you mentioned..you feel like at any moment you're going to be yanked by the hair and drug off to some alley.
    Yeah it's because true sexual predators try to justify in their mind that the victim actually "wants it" or "likes it"...it's what creeps me out about some adult males explaining their attraction to teen girls...it's like, oh yeah, those girls want to dress like grown ups and feel attracted to boys and wonder about the power an adult woman has...but that's not to say she really wants it anymore than an 8 year old girl with a baby doll and a plastic bottle truly wants a real baby.

    We imagine we might enjoy or want things a lot, but then don't actually want the reality of it, even as adults...for that reason it sickens me when adults try to justify being sexual predators to adolescents.

    Another thing I've learned is that men can treat you VERY differently based upon what you're wearing, how much you weigh, etc...so it helps to keep in mind you might not actually WANT the attention of the sort of men who only pay attention to you because of the way you look. I mean, it's good for someone to think you're pretty, but they should also like you for other reasons, like you're nice or smart or interesting or funny or you know...a human being and not an object.

  9. #49
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Generally I think predators choose women who seem easier to victimize. A woman who is dressed provocatively amongst a crowd of friends in daylight is probably safe. A woman in a burqa who gets in a car alone with a neighbor she doesn't know very well is left more open as prey, IMO. A young woman who is naive & trusting is easier to prey upon than an older, savvier woman.

    So I think emphasis should be put on avoiding risky situations for women, not clothing choices. Especially situations which involve being alone with a male you don't know well, but let your guard down with because they are not a total stranger. The stranger rape in the alley of the woman in slutty club clothes is less common than the date rape from a friend of a friend you naively trusted in a secluded area.

    Anyhow, my problem with dressing revealing is that it objectifies not only you, but all women. Teen girls are sending this message to their teenage male peers: value me because I am sexy. This objectification can indirectly lead to attitudes which allow predators to justify their actions towards women. Women are dehumanized & their purpose is to please men, so they have no rights to violate. It also encourages sexism and misogyny when women are reduced to objects. It also continues to purport the idea that a woman's value is tied up in her looks, particularly how sexually desirable she is. I think teen girls begin to adopt this is varying degrees of innocence; some know exactly why they're getting attention, others just like the attention even if they don't know the exact reasons why, yet others just see it as "normal", doing what other girls do (it's a social status, one they aren't aware stems from objectification of women). There's also this reaching for the lowest bar aspect to it; instead of cultivating an image of being interesting, creative, kind, smart, etc, "sexy" is this image that appeals to a base instinct in others, not their higher, reasoning abilities. I think it does send an "animal" message instead of communicating uniquely human qualities.

    I mean, let's face it too; if I wear a white coat with a stethoscope, then what do I look like? A doctor perhaps? Is it wrong to make that association? Now, if I wear a midriff bearing, cleavage showing tube top, a tight mini skirt and stilettos, then what do I look like? A sex worker, maybe? Is that really an unfair association? Slutty clothes are called slutty because they are the uniform of hookers, and hookers wear them to purposely objectify themselves, because they are selling themselves as sex.

    On the other hand, women should not have to wear a burqa to be seen as a human & not an object. I mean, there is a line, and drawing it is an individual matter. I admit my idea of reasonable modesty is on the liberal side. I don't associate all shows of skin with the hooker uniform; I think sexy is not automatically objectifying either. I think the human body is over-sexualized though, especially the female form. Sometimes I think the more that is covered, the more the body becomes taboo. Also, men have to control themselves & cultivate respect for their fellow humans that are female regardless of what women wear. I think the effort has to be made on both sides; women need to keep aware of the messages they send in their dress & men need to see women as people regardless of their attire.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  10. #50
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    @Marm and others: That is one level, but they don't really care. They do not care if the girl has a name, or if she likes the color blue, or if she's feeling bad because her parents are getting divorce, or because she's failing the 7th grade, or if she likes ponies or WHATEVER. You see, it doesn't matter if a sexual thought never entered the girl's head. It doesn't matter if she is really just trying to fit in with her friends and be cute. Maybe it matters according to her own karma what her volition is, but her feelings, thought and soul are not taken into account.

    Men have a lizard brain, and there are perspectives beyond that, but if they are acting from the lizard brain, then then you could remove the girls brain and put in an inanimate piece of fruit, and they would still think she's hot stuff. Also, their fantasy might have nothing to do with the girl "wanting it". She is a thing, like a piece of fruit on a tree. There is a saying in Thialand: "The old cow who likes to eat the young grass" or something. It only matters that the grass is green and seems yummy to that type of cow.

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