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  1. #11
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    [YOUTUBE="bg2G5gf9GHk"]The Hockey Song (a.k.a. The Good Ol' Hockey Game)[/YOUTUBE]

    Are they written specifically about your country or have they been adopted?

    Definitely about Canada.

    What language are they sung in? (eg. is it the first official language of your country? Another dialect? etc)

    English. Drunken, slurred English...

    Are they religious or secular in nature?

    Religious.

    Seriously. I'm not joking. The concept of "the hockey gods" is an old one. It's not well documented; you're not going to find even a Wikipedia article on the subject. It's sort of like karma: your team will do well if you follow a largely unwritten code of conduct. Not following that code of conduct incurs the wrath of the hockey gods.

    For example, one hypothesis for why the Vancouver Canucks lost the Stanley Cup to the Boston Bruins this past season is because they angered the hockey gods with cowardly play (the team became noted for diving to draw penalties), taunting their opponents (in particular Canucks goaltender Roberto Luongo, who proclaimed himself better than opposing goalie Tim Thomas, who coincidentally won the deciding game with a shutout (meaning he didn't allow any goals) while Luongo allowed three goals on only 20 shots (an 85% save percentage; anything less than 90 is considered poor in the NHL)), and deliberately trying to injure opponents. The city of Vancouver itself went on to draw the ire of the hockey gods after rioting following the loss, just as they had the last time the Canucks were in the Stanley Cup finals in 1994.

    This probably sounds quite ridiculous, but I kid you not people really do believe that a hockey team's fate is directly related to its conduct on and off the ice. Being honourable is more important than being talented.

    And that's not even getting into the superstitions like never leaving a game early as a spectator, keeping the jersey you wear in good order and never treating it with disrespect (such as letting it touch ground or worse yet stepping on it), never touching the Clarence Campbell Bowl or the Prince of Wales Trophy, growing a playoff beard, etc.

    What sorts of imagery/setting/time periods do they evoke?

    Cold, blustery Saturday nights spent in front of the TV, watching Hockey Night in Canada.

    What sorts of occasions are they sung?

    Hockey games, and the aforementioned Saturday night mass.

    How do you think the subject matter reflects on your culture?

    Oh boy, that's a loaded question... It's one of a handful of songs, maybe even the only song other than "O Canada", that almost every Canadian has few qualms about singing aloud in public. In that way it reflects that, despite our differences (and trust me boy-o, there are differences...), all Canadians will come together over hockey.

    Maybe it goes back to the hockey gods like I mentioned earlier: you will succeed if you act honourably.

    Do you like them, or do you feel indifferent or alienated by them?

    It's hokey but sure I like it, for what it is.

    I just want to know if the "Bobby" who scored was Bobby Orr or Bobby Hull.

  2. #12
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post


    I listened to it and I looked up a little more about the lyrics. I can't say I approve of those sort of songs, but I can understand why they come about. I am aware that in some countries, patriotism has become inextricably wound up in war. Croatia has certainly had more than its fair share of war and oppression by various empires. I suppose people want powerful statement that they can rally behind that addresses their anger and frustration.

    I guess the other thing to consider is how literally people take songs like this. Do they just want to get angry and shout a lot, or do they actually take it seriously?

    I guess that depends on the individual.


    The thing is that large parts of croatia have pretty hostile environment - Hot summers and snowy/windy winters. While on the other hand there was a very little amount of soil that was/is good for a massive agriculture (in many parts of the country). So instead of agriculture people have rellied on cattle and mobility to survive and that is how things were for centuries. What in the end has created this scary mindset that survives because of killing. (killing of animals)


    On the other hand there is this political instability that lasts since the fall of the Roman empire. County was founded in 6th century and all the way to Renaissance was basically a wilderness with nomads and a lot of feudal rulers and slavery. So open rebelions against authority were pretty common. After that era the islam came for the south east (Middle east). What has resulted in a 400 years war. So there was never a long stability, as a matter of fact many of the Croatian cities were actually started as the fortresses and outposts during this long conflict. But a person must not overlook the fact that this was a religious conflict more than everything else. However the islamic exansion into Europe was stoped because of one trick. The catolic church has seen Islam as threat. (since it was a threat to its existance) So they made a deal with other catholic nations around the Europe to send us some extra equipment or men since the defense must hold at all cost. (and it did) However the cultural cost was heavy since most of the nation did not recive ..... I will call it intelectual stimulation.

    Especially since in those times we were part of Hungarian and latter Austro-Hungarian empire. Which means that we had to fight deliberate assimilation as well.


    After that long episode the ww1 came. (that has actually started in this corner of the world with assasination in Sarajevo). However since the empire has lost the war we used the oportunity to gain independance. But the western countries said that we have to ally with Serbian kingdom that later turned into a Yugoslav kingdom.
    But none the less the process of forced assimilation continued. What has led to the assasination of the king and more political instability. What created the fertile ground for Nazi ideology that was on the rise at the time. So the Nazi Germany saw the opportunity to quickly expand its influence in this part of Europe by making a promise that in the future world order the Croatia will be independent country. So we crashed this Yugoslav kingdom completely with the help of germans and collaborator government was formed. But pretty soon it becaume obvious that this is a lousy deal. Espcially since this quickly formed government was extremely brutal. As far as I know there has even been a reports of German officers stationed here that werw saying that something should be done with the brutality of this puppet government, since it is simply too brutal. However the brutality backfired and the result was creation of mass ressistance movement in Croatia and neighbouring contries. Which has proven to be quite a problem for Germany since they have lost large amount of resources and men on basically nothing - chasing rebels around the landscape they have officially conquered. So if you take a look how little it took for germany to win the war it is possible that they would win in the case that they they have decided to skip this part of Europe. However they saw the opportunity to quickly form a collaborationistic goverment and made a fatal mistake.


    However the bloodbath does not end here since the resistance that defeated the germans was a communist in its worldview. So after the end of WW2 there were a few years of cleansing and genocide since the newly formed Communist goverment wanted to get rid of everything that had to do with the goverment that collaborated with Germany. What has resulted in numerous tens of thousand of dead people , fireing squads killing nuns , poisoning of archbishop , planned demolition of various religious object etc.


    However the leader of the resistance was a croat and a person that sucks at following orders. So he said "fuck off" to Stalin and communist center in Moscow.
    So we became a no ones land again. Heated by people in Moscow but with out the trust of the west since we are a communist country that double crossed them before. However no one dared to attack us since we were excelent barrier between the two blocks. However we were not independant but part of Communistic Yugoslav federation. Since did not trully belong anywhere we had a opportunity to create a society unlike any other. What has resulted in somewhat bizarre mix of communism and capitalism. Since the goverment was Communistic one but it tolerated some private businesses and western pop culture. But then the founding father died and country once again became unstable. Especially since it was a federation of 7 states that was created over night. (technically speaking)
    So the nationalism of all sides went up , what has destroyed the federation on the end. However the pretty massive war machine mostly remained loyal to the central regime in Belgrade. So since they had complete military superiority they started to invade all of the new countries. What has resulted with the biggest bloodshed in Europe since WW2 and the posted song is part of that.



    So I am not suprised that you dont support this kind of songs but if you consider what happned it trully it is not that wierd that people sing this on the stadiums.
    Actually thre reason why is there so many Croats in Commonwealth countries , USA and Western europe is exactly because most people dont have the nerves and a stomach for a life here.

    In less than 100 we changed basically all of the political systems. Empire->Kingdom->Constitutional kingdom-> Fascism -> Communism -> Socialism -> Democracy

    Togather with 6 different currencies through out the time and 3 major wars.


    However I doubt that it will stay on this since once again something is cooking in the background which could create another country wide revolution.



    In a way it is actually funny how much systems, regimes and overwhelming invading forces we have crashed and destroyed. It is almost as the country is a living curse and everything that touches it ends up destroyed. There were even jokes that the EU will fall apart once we join. And what happned ? Not far after we send a request for joining the union started falling apart. (problems imigration laws, currency problems , large grows od debt , failed referendums, etc.)





    I just thought you could use a insight about what is actually behind that song. At this point people simply dont give a shit.

  3. #13
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    When my parents and grandparents were kids, The Maple Leaf Forever was commonly sung in Canada as a patriotic song. I believe it was adopted from a traditional Gaelic song. Because our country was pretty new (1867) and because we had started out as an offshoot from England in a governing sense, we ended up adopting a lot of English patriotic songs. Old school books would have included songs like Rule Brittania, etc. We still sing God Save the Queen at the end of official events like a Remembrance Day service or formal function.

    Canada seems to me to be much more regional though. I don't think we have a very strong national identity compared to our regional identities. I can think of several songs that would be sung in Quebec, but which wouldn't represent the rest of the country. Similarly, somewhere like Cape Breton or Newfoundland, which has a distinct culture would also have their songs, which the rest of the country wouldn't be as familiar with or sing themselves.

    I think because Canada represents a very wide mix of people groups who have often retained their cultures, or only were integrated within the last generation or less, it is harder for people to come up with common music that is representative of our whole country. Even a generation ago, I think our national identity was a lot more British than it is now. A lot of groups from the 90s till now have popularized old traditional folksongs that were sung in Eastern Canada though and revived an interest in trad instrumental music (accordian, fiddle etc).

  4. #14
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Here are a couple:

    'In America' by Charlie Daniels Band: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kB7O...eature=related

    Lyrics:

    We'll the eagle's been flying slow, and the
    flag's been flying low, and a lot of people's
    saying that America's fixing to fall. But
    speaking just for me and some people from
    Tennessee, we got a thing or two to tell
    you all. This lady may have stumbled but she
    ain't never fell. And if the Russians don't
    believe that they can all go straight to hell.
    We're gonna put her feet back on the path
    of the righteousness and then God bless America
    again.

    And you never did think that it ever would
    happen again. In America, did you? You never
    did think that we'd ever get together again.
    Well we damn sure fooled you. We're walking
    real proud and we're talking real loud again in
    America. You never did think that it ever would
    happen again.

    From the sound up in Long Island out to San
    Francisco Bay, and ev'ry thing that's in between
    them is our home. And we may have done a little
    bit of fighting amongst ourselves, but you outside
    people best leave us alone. Cause we'll all stick
    together and you can take that to the bank.
    That's the cowboys and the hippies and the rebels
    and the yanks. You just go and lay your head on a
    Pittsburgh Steeler fan and I think you're gonna
    finally understand.

    And you never did think that it ever would
    happen again. In America, did you? You never
    did think that we'd ever get together again.
    Well we damn sure fooled you. We're walking
    real proud and we're talking real loud again in
    America. You never did think that it ever would
    happen again.

    'Battle of New Orleans' by Johnny Horton: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-rNn...eature=related

    Lyrics:
    In 1814, we took a little trip
    Along with Colonel Jackson down the mighty Mississip'.
    We took a little bacon and we took a little beans
    And we caught the bloody British in a town in New Orleans.

    We fired our guns and the British kept a-coming
    There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago.
    We fired once more, and they began to running,
    On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

    We looked down the river and we see'd the British come
    and there musta' been a hundred of 'em beating on the drum.
    They stepped so high and they made their bugles ring
    We stood beside our cotton bales and didn't say a thing.

    We fired our guns, and the British kept a-coming
    There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago.
    We fired once more and they began to running,
    On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

    Ole Hickory said we could take 'em by surprise
    If we didn't fire our muskets 'till we look 'em in the eyes.
    We held our fire 'til we seen their faces well
    Then we opened up our squirrel guns and really gave 'em... Well..

    We fired our guns, and the British kept a-coming
    There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago.
    We fired once more and they began to running,
    On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

    Well they ran through the briars, and they ran through the brambles
    And they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn't go.
    They ran so fast that the hounds couldn't catch 'em
    On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

    We fired our cannon 'til the barrel melted down
    So we grabbed an alligator and we fought another round.
    We filled his head with cannon balls and powdered his behind,
    And when we touched the powder off, the gator lost his mind.

    We fired our guns and the British kept a-coming
    There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago.
    We fired once more and they began to running,
    On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

    Well they ran through the briars and they ran through the brambles
    And they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn't go.
    They ran so fast that the hounds couldn't catch 'em
    On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

  5. #15
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Interesting offerings guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    "Free Bird" is indisputably loved by most caucasion residents of the Southeastern United States with an inexplicable passion...self included.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fidelia
    Canada seems to me to be much more regional though. I don't think we have a very strong national identity compared to our regional identities.
    ...
    I think because Canada represents a very wide mix of people groups who have often retained their cultures, or only were integrated within the last generation or less, it is harder for people to come up with common music that is representative of our whole country.
    It does seem like people in larger countries identify more with their region than their nation as a whole. The sheer distances between people and the varied cultures that develop out of that, might make cultural unity too difficult.

    Marm, do people in the American south consider themselves southern first, and American second? I have noticed how if you first meet an American and ask where they're from, they always say their state and not their country.

    Quote Originally Posted by 93JC View Post
    Religious.

    Seriously. I'm not joking. The concept of "the hockey gods" is an old one. It's not well documented; you're not going to find even a Wikipedia article on the subject. It's sort of like karma: your team will do well if you follow a largely unwritten code of conduct. Not following that code of conduct incurs the wrath of the hockey gods.
    I get this to a degree. NZ has a near religious love of rugby and attach spiritual values to the sport. The players in the NZ rugby team get paid a fraction of what they could earn playing club rugby in Europe but the prefer to play for their country because the black jersey means that much to them.

    The only difference is that here, the gods are the players

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Because our country was pretty new (1867) and because we had started out as an offshoot from England in a governing sense, we ended up adopting a lot of English patriotic songs. Old school books would have included songs like Rule Brittania, etc. We still sing God Save the Queen at the end of official events like a Remembrance Day service or formal function.
    This sounds a bit like New Zealand. God Save the Queen is still an official national anthem here. But we only sing it a very formal occasions and it always feel very weird doing so, especially for my generation. All that very British stuff seems rather old fashioned now and only has a place in formality.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Marm, do people in the American south consider themselves southern first, and American second? I have noticed how if you first meet an American and ask where they're from, they always say their state and not their country.
    Yes many people in the U.S. say which state they are from instead of saying they are from the U.S.

    I do know some Southerners fiercely see themselves as Southerners first and American second. It's because the culture there is so different from the rest of the country, I think...well it's becoming less and less so, but it's really only been in the last several decades that the South has even opened up to the rest of the country and vice versa.

    As an individual, I don't know if I'd properly say which was which since I don't consider myself a proud redneck or anything, but on the other hand I know that where I come from, especially in a more rural area of WV, my life experience was somewhat different that people in other parts of the country, and I so I do have ties to "my culture."

    On the other hand I've lived so long in other regions of the country, and by choice, that I don't have any sort of particular hostility to "Yankees" or anything. LOL.

  7. #17
    F CK all I need is U ilikeitlikethat's Avatar
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    ^ That's my folk songs. - I kid you not.

  8. #18
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