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  1. #11
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    if you see one of these people



    they are heathens who need to be rescued, so start to preach them about god and how they go to hell if they wont convert to real god asap. they are servants of a pagan god called allah, in the picture they are doing their pagan rituals and you need to stop them doing it before its too late for them.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  2. #12
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    This interested me. It sounds a bit as though the Israelis may come across like South Africans. I found South Africans a bit abrasive at first but have got along well with them when I got used to the straightforwardness and bluntness.

    The people I know who enjoyed Israel and also commented on the helpfulness and kindness of strangers went to the country with no preconceptions, an open mind, respect, ready to enjoy themselves etc. The people I know who didn't like it and went on about how horrible and rude the Israelis were, well, they went to the country with what I'm afraid I'd probably have to call an anti-semitic perspective (or at least sufficient dislike for the country's political policies that it had spilled over to become pretty much prejudice against all Israelis), so I wasn't surprised they didn't like it.
    Wow, this perception does seem to be rife. I heard the same stories about Israelis before I went but I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I actually think this view comes in part from people who travelled through other neighbouring countries first. Arabs are know for their amazing warmth and hospitality and going from this to abrasive Israelis can make for a strong contrast. Its simply a difference in demeanour and isn't reflective of either's degree of kindness.

    Once you get used to the Israeli manner, its remarkably refreshing - there's next to no pretence. If you're in a bad mood and don't feel like chit-chat you can be aloof and skip the BS niceties. Also the sense of familiarity between people means you are literally treated like family. Therefore: a) you can trust others more easily; b) its easier to approach strangers to ask a random question or for help (I particularly noticed this because I'm so shy); c) people are more likely to help you and even offer help before you ask for it. Because of this, I did crazy things in Israel that I never would do otherwise. Once I was stranded at a historical site in the middle of the desert. I walked up to a complete stranger outside a bed and breakfast and asked him to drive me to the nearest bus stop (which was 4-5km away). He did this readily, and then when we got there, waved down a car and organised this family to take me to the nearest city, some 50km off. Unbelievable...
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  3. #13
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Wow, this perception does seem to be rife. I heard the same stories about Israelis before I went but I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I actually think this view comes in part from people who travelled through other neighbouring countries first. Arabs are know for their amazing warmth and hospitality and going from this to abrasive Israelis can make for a strong contrast. Its simply a difference in demeanour and isn't reflective of either's degree of kindness.

    Once you get used to the Israeli manner, its remarkably refreshing - there's next to no pretence. If you're in a bad mood and don't feel like chit-chat you can be aloof and skip the BS niceties. Also the sense of familiarity between people means you are literally treated like family. Therefore: a) you can trust others more easily; b) its easier to approach strangers to ask a random question or for help (I particularly noticed this because I'm so shy); c) people are more likely to help you and even offer help before you ask for it. Because of this, I did crazy things in Israel that I never would do otherwise. Once I was stranded at a historical site in the middle of the desert. I walked up to a complete stranger outside a bed and breakfast and asked him to drive me to the nearest bus stop (which was 4-5km away). He did this readily, and then when we got there, waved down a car and organised this family to take me to the nearest city, some 50km off. Unbelievable...
    Yeah, I've heard similar stories about Israelis. My friends got a ride in a police car from some very cute Israeli policemen I've hardly met any, but years ago when I was hiking in Wales I spent the day with two Israelis (well, one guy who was Israeli proper, from Jerusalem, and one English Jew living in Israel) and they were just lovely. They really looked after me all day and cooked me dinner at the hostel in the evening. They also pointed out in a conversation about the political situation (the second intifada was well under way) that "not everyone realizes that not all Israelis support Israel's policies." That stuck with me, because it seems that many Europeans (in particular) have chosen to assume the opposite.

    I've been to Morocco and Egypt and it's true that the Arabs are extremely warm and hospitable, and also pretty smooth The hospitality in the Arab culture is lovely but I find other aspects of the culture harder to respect, mainly the attitude toward women. In certain cases especially. My experience is that as a Western woman (and this is both meeting Arabs in Western countries, or in their own countries) the men either think you're a whore and hit on you accordingly (even if you dress very modestly, which I did), or they treat you with respect but basically regard you as though you're a man (Arab men will actually say this.) Neither of which I care for, though I appreciated the respect where I found it. I was traveling in Egypt with male friends and also found that if you are with a guy or guys, in a conversation the Arab men will pretty much ignore you and direct all comments to the guys.

    I have two friends who travelled in Egypt, Jordan and Israel recently - two girls, one black, and one mixed-race (oddly, she looks like she could be Egyptian specifically!). They said that in Israel they met with nothing but respect and helpfulness. In Jordan particularly, though, they got hit on constantly in a very sexualized way, especially the black girl - like, nonstop very dirty talk and crude jokes about wanting a black wife and that sort of thing. They had a worse experience there than what I've heard about from white women and it seemed to have a lot to do with their race. In Egypt the other girl got groped by one of the guides while she was doing the ascent of Mt Sinai. I've found that living in London, where there are a lot of Arab men, they're by far the most likely to harass Western women out of any nationality (and most of my female friends agree). So, yeah. I'm afraid I've picked up some prejudices of my own.

    Sorry - digression from the original topic!
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  4. #14
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    ohh. i have a question for those of you who have travelled in the middle east.

    my natural coloring is basically light/medium in general, but i have olivey skin via the southern greek part of the family. were i to dye my hair a very dark brown or black, i could probably pass fairly well for native middle eastern.

    would it do me any practical good?

  5. #15
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    ohh. i have a question for those of you who have travelled in the middle east.

    my natural coloring is basically light/medium in general, but i have olivey skin via the southern greek part of the family. were i to dye my hair a very dark brown or black, i could probably pass fairly well for native middle eastern.

    would it do me any practical good?
    My American friend can pass for a fair-skinned Arab - she has dark hair and has a partly Spanish/Moorish background. She's been mistaken for an Arab in those countries before - even before she opened her mouth because she speaks the language pretty fluently!

    If you dress modestly you might get overlooked (in a good way) more than you would otherwise... Of course, people might try to speak Arabic to you, which could be challenging...
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  6. #16
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    ohh. i have a question for those of you who have travelled in the middle east.

    my natural coloring is basically light/medium in general, but i have olivey skin via the southern greek part of the family. were i to dye my hair a very dark brown or black, i could probably pass fairly well for native middle eastern.

    would it do me any practical good?
    IME Westerners tend stick out like sore thumbs no matter what you do.

    Although, having darker skin and hair might make you less stared at.
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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

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