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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    Those are just personal attacks and dodging the questions I've posed. A clear answer as to why INFJ's don't top the lists for Linguistic, intrapersonal, and Existential intelligence has yet to be made. I've given clear reasons for, you've said "fi" which isn't a reason but a statement without explanation.
    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    There's just no way any ST would come close to an INTP in my mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    I think it's preposterous to say they don't.
    ^The proof is right here folks^

    Edit: Not all INFJ's, just you.

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    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    ^The proof is right here folks^

    Edit: Not all INFJ's, just you.
    I've given a reason, and it's because of the definition of the term spatial as given on wikipedia that is throwing everyone off:

    Spatial

    This area deals with spatial judgment and the ability to visualize with the mind's eye. Careers which suit those with this type of intelligence include artists, designers and architects. A spatial person is also good with puzzles.

    All of which are INTP functions of Introverted thinking and Extroverted intuition, especially when it comes to problem solving any theory. INTP's are extremely artistic rational designers, and make the best architects and puzzle solvers because of their attention to detail. To me, Spatial reasoning in the mind is a greater intelligence than spatial reasoning on the field, although one is not more important than the other, and no, a first class athlete is not what is meant by spatial intelligence, especially not by the given wikipedia definition.

    I'll link you guys to these websites and you can connect the dots:

    Intelligences
    All Personalities
    The Architect INTP
    The Supervisor ESTJ

    To me, it's just laughable in thinking the mind of George Bush (ESTJ) has a better spatial intelligence than Albert Einstein (INTP).
    "Truth stands true, independent of whether you agree with it or not."

    "Don't let what matters least, matter most."

    Extroverted (E) 50% Introverted (I) 50%
    Intuitive (N) 62.5% Sensing (S) 37.5%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 51.52% Perceiving (P) 48.48%
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    To me, Spatial reasoning in the mind is a greater intelligence than spatial reasoning on the field, although one is not more important than the other, and no, a first class athlete is not what is meant by spatial intelligence, especially not by the given wikipedia definition.
    K, so you know a Sensing Thinker can (and they do) have Spatial reasoning in their minds? You do realize this, yes? You realize that all STPs aren't athletes, right?

    And the fact that you think that the particular way an INTP might utilize Spatial intelligence is superior to the way an SP might use it, is neither here nor there, and it doesn't magically mean that there will suddenly be more INTPs than Sensing Thinkers (there definitely won't be) or that Spatial intelligence would even be the most common for INTPs.

    A star athlete would have a mixture of Bodily/Kinesthetic and Spatial, not Spatial alone, just as an artist would be more likely to have Spatial and Intrapersonal. An architect might have Spatial and Mathematical/Logical, and there are many Sensor architects. Being an INTP isn't going to make you a better architect just through virtue of being INTP, although an INTP could potentially be a skilled architect...which is why I don't understand your assertion that INTPs are somehow "better" than STs.

    An NT might be more inclined to use Spatial intelligence in a different manner, but it's not necessarily better, or easier for them to learn.

    Ns don't have the easiest time learning EVERYTHING, which is what your list seemed to imply, that all iNtuitives learn all kinds of things more easily than Sensors, and that's simply not true.

    Now...iNtuitives might be better at Existentialist Intelligence, just like Sensors might be better at Naturalistic or Bodily/Kinesthetic.

    BUT INTUITIVES DO NOT NATURALLY DO EVERYTHING BETTER OR MORE EASILY.

  4. #44
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    Types I think are most predisposed without effort for the intelligence:
    1. Spatial - INTP
    Spatial reasoning is for artists, designers, and architects, which in my mind would clearly go to the INTP with IT EN.
    except that doesn't really usually translate. Ti checks internal validity of systems, and Ne assists Ti in giving Ti a wide range of applications. but Ne is about "headspace", not physical space, and INTPs are introverted by nature. while they may have strong conceptualization, it's unlikely that it translates into the real external physical arena.

    on the other hand, Se, being both physical and external, is more likely to have a solid grasp on spatial reasoning, which is often about tangible measurement and proprioceptive positioning.

    like i pointed out in my earlier post, i personally am strongest in spatial intelligence. being an ENFP, i suspect that i am an outlier, and what you said about using the "mind's eye" is true for me. still... i can see an ESTP totally beating me out.

    2. Linguistic - NF (INFJ,INFP)
    The masters of the spoken or written word of any language would easily go to the INFJ's and INFP's. Different sides of the same coin, but NF sort of dominates in both writing and public speaking as far as a natural predisposition with IN EF and IF EN.
    why would an introvert tend to be better at language, which is a interpersonal phenomenon which can only arise at the divide between two people? given one person, there is no need for language, besides an alphabetical system to transcribe one's thoughts. but there is no need for shared terms. whereas language is a multifaceted, ever-changing thing, and takes place between people. i would agree to give language to Ns because language is a metaphorical thing, one thing representing another, but i don't see it going to the introverts. also, Fs probably will only have a slight advantage, with ENFs coming in on top, followed by ESFs, then perhaps INTs, who tend to have a proclivity for seeking accuracy in language.

    3. Logical-mathematical - NT (INTP,INTJ)
    Intuitive thinkers have logical and mathematical cased over anyone including ISTP's and ISTJ's and are naturally going to rise above and beyond with less effort than other types in my mind.
    agreed here. though really i think applied logic and theoretical logic should be split... you can be a genius in calc 6 and have no idea what the hell to do with your car engine.

    4. Bodily-kinesthetic - (All types)
    Physical build has very little to do with Myers Briggs in my opinion. The most common athletes are going to be ES's because they gravitate towards sports and are less prone to intellectual pursuits, but they aren't necessarily better than any other type at athletics and controlling their bodies.
    i don't see how extraverted Sensing wouldn't immediately take the advantage here. someone who is constantly assessing their external physical environment, including their body and its relationship with the environment, is unquestionably going to have a huge advantage over an introvert who mainly pays attention to what she values, and not her interaction or place in the external world.

    5. Musical - ISFP,INFP
    Introverted Feeling perceivers are easily the most creative this way and to me have thee most natural predisposition for music out of all the types which makes me very envious.
    still, that's only one sort of musical intelligence. let me survey three musicians of varying types: 1. me, ENFP - very good at expression and playing in a way that others feel the music along with me. horrible at playing with others and not great with technical accuracy. okay at improvising. 2. my dad, INTP - excellent improviser, and knows his scales inside and out. has an incredible ear and obvious natural talent. good at playing with others. generally stays away from deep emotional expression. 3. a friend, ISTJ. incredible technical accuracy and tempo regulation. also stays away from expression, but can play incredibly complex pieces with ease. does not like improvisation.

    so... i feel like we're all good at music in different ways... there are so many different ways to be good at music that i feel like it's very hard to narrow it down... and different functions will give you different strengths... my dad's Ti clearly is the backbone of his playing... my friend's Si makes her an incredible musical analyst... my own NeFi combo allows me to create "moods" very well... etc

    6. Interpersonal - ENTP
    I'll make the case for ENTP's being the best networkers between people with their combination of Extraverted Intuitive Thinking Perceiving, which to me is just set up perfectly for pubic speaking and gathering people together in a creative and most convincing way. Other Extraverts are really good with interpersonal affairs, but to me, ENTP's are simply networking all the time, even for the sake of it.
    except ENTPs aren't actually that gifted interpersonally, usually. they're good at using networking to get what they want, but they're not very good at coordinating groups and establishing harmony and smoothing social relations and helping everyone achieve their goals. imo, the real interpersonal intelligence types are the ExFJs, who lead with extraverted Feeling, and as such are naturally attuned to relationships and exchanges between people. the thing about ExFJs is that even though they could easily use the group to get exactly what they want, like ENTPs tend to do, they use the group to get what everyone wants. it's like they're on a completely more advanced level.

    7. Intrapersonal - INFJ
    The wikipedia definition of intrapersonal screams INFJ.

    "This area has to do with introspective and self-reflective capacities. People with intrapersonal intelligence are intuitive and typically introverted. They are skillful at deciphering their own feelings and motivations. This refers to having a deep understanding of the self; what your strengths/ weaknesses (serious J type judging) are, what makes you unique, you can predict your own reactions/ emotions.
    imo, it screams introverted Feeling, an attribute of IxFPs, not INFJs. the interesting thing about INFJs and INFPs when you delve into cognitive functions is that INFJs are actually internal Perceivers while INFPs are internal Judgers. this means that INFPs are actually more interested in Judging themselves and organizing their inner thought structures, while INFJs are more interested in organizing the external world while allowing their internal world to be more free and open. certainly all IxFx types are going to be reflective and introspective, but IxFPs are going to do more internal decision-making, while IxFJs are going to tend to leave inner things open. they might be constantly analyzing their inner thoughts and feelings, but they're not going to come to inner conclusions and build identity off those as steadily an IxFP. i do agree that the final sentence in your quote sounds quite INFJy, but the rest still leans far enough IxFP that i have to give the whole thing to IxFP.

    8. Naturalistic - S
    All sense thinkers are going to be more naturalistic and earthy than intuitors.
    probably true. though IRL, i notice that usually Ps are more comfortable with the environment. could be coincidence.

    9. Existential - INFJ
    Spiritual, religious, and philosophical intelligence, again, most naturally goes to the prophet/clairvoyant INFJ with IN EF followed by a very close INTP IT EN and INTJ IN ET, but those two are still more naturally inclined to logic/math than existential questions.
    this, i will give you. INFJ for existential.

  5. #45
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    i don't see how extraverted Sensing wouldn't immediately take the advantage here. someone who is constantly assessing their external physical environment, including their body and its relationship with the environment, is unquestionably going to have a huge advantage over an introvert who mainly pays attention to what she values, and not her interaction or place in the external world.
    I have some experience with sports, and I can tell you where and how some intuitives can be advantaged:
    - in cycling, intuitives can often tolerate pain, cold, heat better than sensors, just zoning out. Downside: sometimes they don't understand well their own physical condition.
    - in soccer, provided that they have good technique and reflexes (something which can be honed with practice), intuitives can help design a "big picture" scheme as midfielders, can predict how another player and-or another teammate will move and thus either intercept the ball and-or make a nice pass
    - in basketball, they can be good at out-of-the-box solutions and-or schemes in terms of passess, movements, etc.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

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    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    To me, it's just laughable in thinking the mind of George Bush (ESTJ) has a better spatial intelligence than Albert Einstein (INTP).
    Why are you comparing a genius to someone with average to low-average intelligence? George Bush is an ESTP, btw. He has Fe, not Fi. That's what makes him so fucking charming. His serious cat father, George Sr, is the STJ...ISTJ.

    It's like you're really stretching, bro. You're not acknowledging that the reason the multiple intelligences exist is for a similar reason that people have different personality types. Don't you see? DO YOU NOT SEE?

    Ugh.

  7. #47
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    visual-spatial - ESxP, then ISxP, then ENxP
    interpersonal - xxFJ, then xxFP
    intrapersonal - IxFP
    natural - xSxP
    linguistic - xNxx
    musical - any
    kinesthetic - xSxP
    logic/mathematical - xNTx
    I like these matchups here. According to my little personality badge thingy, my primary intelligence is logical, with my second being verbal/linguistic, which sort of goes with being an N-dominant NT. But then another test I took said that I'm more visual-spatially intelligent. I'm not sure, because I'm excellent at some visual things (like designs and geometry) but epically fail at other spatial sorts of tasks (some mental rotation tasks, navigating a supermarket without hitting at least one obstacle). Maybe that's why ENxP can be included on there but still behind the SP types.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Here is a free test (it doesn't have existential)
    but it tests how you are smart, not how smart you are..

    http://www.queendom.com/queendom_tests/transfer

    From highest to lowest I scored-

    1) Linguistic
    2) Interpersonal/Intrapersonal (Tied)
    3) Visual/Spacial
    4) Bodily Kinesthetic
    5) Naturalistic/Musical (Tied)
    6) Logical/Mathematical (suprise surprise)

    I have taken other tests and scored fairly high on spatial a few times. You know those questions that ask things like.. "you go 3 blocks north 5 blocks south 2 blocks east and 4 blocks west" I've always been able to map things like that out quickly. I do it when I travel too, when I get to a high point overlooking a city.. i map out specific land marks and can create a mental map that I refer to as I go about the city. I can also quickly assess how much stuff can fit somewhere if positioned optimally, and do well with puzzles.

    THere may be a correlation with type/intelligence.. but I don't think its absolute.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  9. #49
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    6. Interpersonal - ENTP
    I'll make the case for ENTP's being the best networkers between people with their combination of Extraverted Intuitive Thinking Perceiving, which to me is just set up perfectly for pubic speaking and gathering people together in a creative and most convincing way. Other Extraverts are really good with interpersonal affairs, but to me, ENTP's are simply networking all the time, even for the sake of it.
    except ENTPs aren't actually that gifted interpersonally, usually. they're good at using networking to get what they want, but they're not very good at coordinating groups and establishing harmony and smoothing social relations and helping everyone achieve their goals. imo, the real interpersonal intelligence types are the ExFJs, who lead with extraverted Feeling, and as such are naturally attuned to relationships and exchanges between people. the thing about ExFJs is that even though they could easily use the group to get exactly what they want, like ENTPs tend to do, they use the group to get what everyone wants. it's like they're on a completely more advanced level.
    What?

    ENTP- Interpersonal??

    No.

  10. #50
    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
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    @Marmie Dearest, these intelligences do attend to intuitives with greater ease than sensors, but the majority of all "things" that need to get done are "naturalistic intelligences". So although it looks skewed towards N's, in reality, S's occupy the majority of the work and are absolutely vital, although, will not have a natural predisposition to the majority of the intelligences as N's do.

    The misconception is still on understanding spatial intelligence, and your quote speaks to that misconception when you said
    Ne is about "headspace", not physical space, and INTPs are introverted by nature. while they may have strong conceptualization, it's unlikely that it translates into the real external physical arena.
    Spatial intelligence doesn't need to translate into the real external physical arena, but is only in understanding that physical arena. My point with the architect INTP, as Keirsey puts it, is that they can take any space and manipulate and re-conceptualize it, whereas the sensing thinker must identify with the space. The ST weakness, is in having to attend to the built environment, whereas the INTP doesn't have to in order to understand the built environment, and in that respect the artistic, designing, architect INTP has greater spatial reasoning to any ST.

    As in this: http://www.keirsey.com/4temps/architect.asp

    With linguistics, there's definitely a good argument to be made for ENFJ's and ENFP's, but I still think IN EF or IF EN has a greater grasp of the language than EN IF and EF IN, but either or will work in whatever order. Per person argument really.

    The body is a genetic crap shoot and one person may have a physique that allows them greater capacity to use it than others. ES's are definitely more in tune with their bodies overall.

    ISFP's and INFP's make the best composers because their artistry is cranked so high, and that's the only reason why I say it's the easiest for them over other types, because of their IF. It's like uber super creative amazing juice. You're totally right though; other types create great music, and INFP's and ISFP's don't have a lock on it by any stretch, just the greatest ease into the musical world over other interests because of IF.

    I think you're totally right about ENFJ's and ESFJ's though. Makes more sense than ENTP, as interpersonal intelligence must have a depth of feeling and ENTP's are more aloof.

    So either INFJ's or INFP's top intrapersonal depth, with INFP's being a little more, in IF EN as opposed to IN EF, sure, both are doing, pretty much the same thing.

    INFJ's easily top existential depth.
    "Truth stands true, independent of whether you agree with it or not."

    "Don't let what matters least, matter most."

    Extroverted (E) 50% Introverted (I) 50%
    Intuitive (N) 62.5% Sensing (S) 37.5%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 51.52% Perceiving (P) 48.48%
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