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  1. #111
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Yes I agree that it's kind of absurd to say that the place where we come from as people (um, earth) is a Sensor thing.

    On the other hand, I can see the correlation because of the gravitation toward tangible, hands on work with animals or plants, or at least with factual, concrete science like biology and anatomy and geology instead of more "abstract" sciences like physics.

    The interesting thing about Naturalistic intelligence, too, is that that Naturalists notice patterns in nature, which would seem to suggest either Se or Ne, and the trend toward classifying natural objects I suppose isn't very "abstract."

    I don't know.

    I've always been horrified by the idea of space, or living in some robotic, computerized world, and it does frankly seem like NTs in particular are more likely to embrace that for whatever reason.
    Well yeah, there are distinctions, and it's true that there are certain types who gravitate more towards the actual classification/study aspect, vs. other types that gravitate towards working with their hands, in the soil, or with the animals, etc, and still others who are more holistic and looking at the ecosystem as a whole (meteorology, ecology)... definitely different branches.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Well yeah, there are distinctions, and it's true that there are certain types who gravitate more towards the actual classification/study aspect, vs. other types that gravitate towards working with their hands, in the soil, or with the animals, etc, and still others who are more holistic and looking at the ecosystem as a whole (meteorology, ecology)... definitely different branches.
    I completely agree. I still think there's some element of Ne and Se applicable to it (probably both) because of the pattern thing, and because of noticing things in the environment that other people don't notice. Respectively that sounds like Ne and Se, or a mixture of both.

    There may not be a correlation to functions, but NFJs do have Se, after all.

  3. #113
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I completely agree. I still think there's some element of Ne and Se applicable to it (probably both) because of the pattern thing, and because of noticing things in the environment that other people don't notice. Respectively that sounds like Ne and Se, or a mixture of both.

    There may not be a correlation to functions, but NFJs do have Se, after all.
    I would argue too that Ni can come into play significantly - i.e. everything ties together and all of these various elements need to line up for the whole to be what it is; start taking out elements and the foundation begins to crumble. Ecology, for example, is a pretty ... non-tangible discipline in many ways, in the sense of all of the interconnections.. not necessarily the focus on patterns themselves. But I can't deny that it's a definite Se outlet for me too.

    But anyway, I just want to illustrate/argue against Naturalist just pertaining to Sensor. I don't see it that way (although as above, there are obviously different elements that different types will be drawn to, either interest-wise or work-wise).

    I mean we could probably bring in most of the functions if we wanted to... Si could apply to the ISxJ or INTP who really wanted to catalogue all of the specimans in a Natural History museum and had that rich storehouse of info, or Fi with personal values, IxTP's or IxTJ's in wildlife biology, out there gathering the data, any of the types teaching env. ed, Se/Ne as you explain, and so on. Of course these are just some examples, and the only reason I mention all of this is because pretty much all of the people in my life are into nature/outdoors in one way or another, and they're of varying types. What about historic figures/scientists/novelists who pioneered the environmental movement/ideas, and/or studied biology? It's why I tend to be amused when I see Naturalist = S. I think it's probably across the board w/ types.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I would argue too that Ni can come into play significantly - i.e. everything ties together and all of these various elements need to line up for the whole to be what it is; start taking out elements and the foundation begins to crumble. But I can't deny that it's a definite Se outlet for me too.

    But anyway, I just want to illustrate/argue against Naturalist just pertaining to Sensor. I don't see it that way (although as above, there are obviously different elements that different types will be drawn to, either interest-wise or work-wise).

    I mean we could probably bring in most of the functions if we wanted to... Si could apply to the ISxJ or INTP who really wanted to catalogue all of the specimans in a Natural History museum and had that rich storehouse of info, or Fi with personal values, IxTP's or IxTJ's in wildlife biology, out there gathering the data, any of the types teaching env. ed, Se/Ne as you explain, and so on. Of course these are just some examples, and the only reason I mention all of this is because pretty much all of the people in my life are into nature/outdoors in one way or another, and they're of varying types. What about historic figures/scientists/novelists who pioneered the environmental movement/ideas, and/or studied biology? It's why I tend to be amused when I see Naturalist = S. I think it's probably across the board w/ types.
    Perhaps this is true, and there's not a large correlation between type of intelligence and personality type, though there may be trends.

    Like with Spatial intelligence, and INTPs perhaps using it differently than an ESTP or ISTJ.

    I still suspect that math/logic might be low in ExFx for some reason, especially ExFP because it seems that ExFPs are more "right brained." I think of feelers, IxFJs might be more likely to have mathematical/logical for some reason.

  5. #115
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I think of feelers, IxFJs might be more likely to have mathematical/logical for some reason.
    presumably because of Ti tertiary?

    on the other hand, most guys seem to think of mathematics/logic/etc in visual/spacial terms, whereas I tend to think of them in linguistic terms... both of which are natural functions of the human brain, where formal math/logic is not.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonance View Post
    presumably because of Ti tertiary?

    on the other hand, most guys seem to think of mathematics/logic/etc in visual/spacial terms, whereas I tend to think of them in linguistic terms... both of which are natural functions of the human brain, where formal math/logic is not.
    I think logic and math are very left-brained things. Language can also be characterized as such, especially if you're speaking of English grammar...but see, I've never really loved grammar. It's not my strong point, I was always better with reading/comprehension/analysis/creative writing. I'm fascinated with Slavic languages because of their lack of focus on left-brained grammatical structure. I score very high on verbal/linguistic, but I don't necessarily like doing word puzzles, either. My relationship with words is still slightly more right-brained somehow. They say women's brains are more connected, anyway, though. That in females the left and right brain are more strongly tied together by the ...corpus collusum? Yeah, that thing in the middle.

    My grandfather tried to teach me math as surely as he taught me to read and to appreciate world politics and history, but it just didn't take. And of course he was mystified by how I was more drawn to music, dancing, and the arts, because he did not see these things as "useful" though he did allow me to pursue the interests, the older I got, the more he began insisting that what I was good at wasn't the "right thing" because it wasn't "useful."

    LOL.

    But yeah, I always did really super well in classes like biology, but practically failed chemistry. I suck at math, though I am totally capable of grasping the natural sciences very well, probably due to being a Naturalist as well as being Linguistic and Musical.

  7. #117
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I'd put myself in this order.... I'm quite good at math, but I prefer the arts. I did not have any natural inclination towards math/logic until I started school, whereas I had a natural knack for drawing/space at a very young age. Ultimately, I am more of a right-brained person, but I think that these different strengths can stem from different kinds of thinking. I do think my knack for language is different than it is for left-brain types.

    1. Intrapersonal / Existential ( I consider this the same thing....)
    2. Spatial
    3. Linguistic
    4. Logical-mathematical
    5. Musical
    6. Interpersonal
    7. Bodily-kinesthetic
    8. Naturalistic
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  8. #118
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I think logic and math are very left-brained things. Language can also be characterized as such, especially if you're speaking of English grammar...but see, I've never really loved grammar. It's not my strong point, I was always better with reading/comprehension/analysis/creative writing. I'm fascinated with Slavic languages because of their lack of focus on left-brained grammatical structure. I score very high on verbal/linguistic, but I don't necessarily like doing word puzzles, either. My relationship with words is still slightly more right-brained somehow. They say women's brains are more connected, anyway, though. That in females the left and right brain are more strongly tied together by the ...corpus collusum? Yeah, that thing in the middle.

    My grandfather tried to teach me math as surely as he taught me to read and to appreciate world politics and history, but it just didn't take. And of course he was mystified by how I was more drawn to music, dancing, and the arts, because he did not see these things as "useful" though he did allow me to persue the interests, the older I got, the more he began insisting that what I was good at wasn't the "right thing" because it wasn't "useful."

    LOL.

    But yeah, I always did really super well in classes like biology, but practically failed chemistry. I suck at math, though I am totally capable of grasping the natural sciences very well, probably due to being a Naturalist as well as being Linguistic and Musical.
    hm, that's funny. lol, politics and world history are so much more useful than dance and artistic expression Actually, the value of artistic and emotional expression for proper brain development is becoming more and more evident over the years, as various psychological disorders are shown to respond to treatment involving just that. In fact, my mom's PhD thesis is a test of using music therapy to combat the neural+muscular degeneration in parkinson's disease.

    Chem was my worst science subject... for some reason it just made no sense to me. Maybe because of all the absurd symbols that have no relevance to other parts of the problem. It seemed like a lot of 'grindy' problems with lots of simple, trivial calculations. Sometimes I would forego the step-by-step method and generate a formula specific to the question, then plug in the data and get an answer :p I tended to lose 'show your work' marks for that, though Physics was somewhat similar, but more mathy, and math overall was better for me.

    And yep, you've got it right, the corpus callosum is usually bigger/more developed in women. Whether that's genetic/hormonal or due to upbringing I'll leave for another discussion. My brain is kind of in-between, as far as male-female, anyway. I tend to think of myself as more skilled with the 'left-brain' aspects of language, like grammar and so on, but maybe that's because I kind of have to actively work at it whereas the right-brain non-verbal stuff just comes naturally if I can manage to pay attention to someone.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  9. #119
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    That's interesting about your mother's PhD thesis. Music therapy sounds very cool, it's something I would like to learn more about.

  10. #120
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    That's interesting about your mother's PhD thesis. Music therapy sounds very cool, it's something I would like to learn more about.
    Fa sho sooner or later she's going to get a paper published on it, so I'll be looking forward to linking it all over the place :p
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

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