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  1. #411
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Up Rex View Post
    That was the point of asking for clarification.
    That was the point of my telling you to re-read my post as everything had already been said.

    I would need to clarify if I didn't mention something, that wasn't the case.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  2. #412
    Super Ape Luke O's Avatar
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    I distrust IQ as a true measure of intelligence, it doesn't take into consideration all forms of intelligence and focuses more on the "problem solving" aspect (and even then, not really aligned to 'real world' problems). It is as accurate as BMI is as a measure of obesity. It doesn't tell the whole story.

  3. #413
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    I remember how much "I have a really high IQ, but IQ doesn't matter" cliche there is on this forum

    Still it's much better than claiming you're a genius whilst providing only evidence that you're arrogant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Up Rex View Post
    TL;DR -- correlation =/= causation.
    That is the gist of what happens here. There's a lot to control for, it's a real mess. Success is not so much a measure of ability, as it is a measure of perceived ability. Objective standards tend to only exist in lower payed work.

    If there's one thing IQ does better than anything else, it's making you come across as smart, especially in the culture that created that standard. It's like thinking someone who's good at arithmetic is good at math in general, only with a more complicated self-fulfilling role. I think a large degree of the success of IQ is that it's a proxy for processing speed, and I think the proof of that lies in other tests of intellect, when treated with the same standard, get parallel results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke O View Post
    I distrust IQ as a true measure of intelligence, it doesn't take into consideration all forms of intelligence and focuses more on the "problem solving" aspect (and even then, not really aligned to 'real world' problems). It is as accurate as BMI is as a measure of obesity. It doesn't tell the whole story.
    IQ and BMI are the inverse of each other. The more extreme the BMI is, the more accurate a predictor it becomes. The more extreme the IQ, the less accurate a predictor it becomes.

    I think intellectual problem-solving is the best definition of intelligence you are going to hear, short of the cognitive ones. You are absolutely right though, IQ does not focus on "real" problems very much at all. However it is a very strong predictor of many significant things, especially within the first two standard deviations. Working memory, fluid intelligence and willpower are three similar traits that seem to be better predictors of those same things though.

  4. #414
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    That was the point of my telling you to re-read my post as everything had already been said.

    I would need to clarify if I didn't mention something, that wasn't the case.
    I think if you post a study but can't summarize it in your own words, nor can give a concise reason it supports your main argument--you probably don't understand it.

    I wrote what I believed your argument was based on your post, and still don't have a clear idea of what you actually think besides "Eck is super smart and never wrong".


    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    I remember how much "I have a really high IQ, but IQ doesn't matter" cliche there is on this forum

    Still it's much better than claiming you're a genius whilst providing only evidence that you're arrogant.
    Preach.

    That is the gist of what happens here. There's a lot to control for, it's a real mess. Success is not so much a measure of ability, as it is a measure of perceived ability. Objective standards tend to only exist in lower payed work.

    If there's one thing IQ does better than anything else, it's making you come across as smart, especially in the culture that created that standard. It's like thinking someone who's good at arithmetic is good at math in general, only with a more complicated self-fulfilling role. I think a large degree of the success of IQ is that it's a proxy for processing speed, and I think the proof of that lies in other tests of intellect, when treated with the same standard, get parallel results.
    The reason that I find the whole discussion around IQ to be counterproductive is because who does it actually help? If you're someone with low IQ, then does that mean that you should just resign yourself to being a janitor? If you're someone with high IQ, then do you just kick back in your mom's basement until the Fields Medals and blow jobs start rolling in? Who the fuck actually cares?

    The purpose of the IQ test was to measure potential. If pretty much everyone (+/- the white supremacists posting) can agree that IQ has fuck all to do with what actually enables one to be successful in this life, then it's failed in terms of its actual purpose. IQ is about as useful as MBTI in that regard.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  5. #415
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    I think if you post a study but can't summarize it in your own words, nor can give a concise reason it supports your main argument--you probably don't understand it.

    I wrote what I believed your argument was based on your post, and still don't have a clear idea of what you actually think besides "Eck is super smart and never wrong".
    funny
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  6. #416
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Still it's much better than claiming you're a genius whilst providing only evidence that you're arrogant.
    interesting tidbit, intelligent people tend to come off as 'arrogant' when explaining something to less intelligent people.
    True story.

    What do you make of it?
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE
    Likes SearchingforPeace liked this post

  7. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    interesting tidbit, intelligent people tend to come off as 'arrogant' when explaining something to less intelligent people.
    True story.

    What do you make of it?
    Probably anecdotal based on illusory superiority. Everything I've read in behavioral psychology/economics suggests the opposite is more often the case, and that the causation flows both ways.

  8. #418
    Super Ape Luke O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    IQ and BMI are the inverse of each other. The more extreme the BMI is, the more accurate a predictor it becomes. The more extreme the IQ, the less accurate a predictor it becomes.

    I think intellectual problem-solving is the best definition of intelligence you are going to hear, short of the cognitive ones. You are absolutely right though, IQ does not focus on "real" problems very much at all. However it is a very strong predictor of many significant things, especially within the first two standard deviations. Working memory, fluid intelligence and willpower are three similar traits that seem to be better predictors of those same things though.
    Perhaps not an exact analogy but yes, it's the basic message. I would also like to include things like emotional intelligence too, I'm not naturally good at dealing with how others feel but I'm learning.

  9. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke O View Post
    I would also like to include things like emotional intelligence too, I'm not naturally good at dealing with how others feel but I'm learning.
    Hippie.

    Seriously though, I agree with what you're saying, but I really don't like EQ as long as it's based on self-reporting. Emotions are probably the area people have the most distortions around.
    Likes Luke O liked this post

  10. #420
    eye of the storm magpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke O View Post
    I distrust IQ as a true measure of intelligence, it doesn't take into consideration all forms of intelligence and focuses more on the "problem solving" aspect (and even then, not really aligned to 'real world' problems). It is as accurate as BMI is as a measure of obesity. It doesn't tell the whole story.
    This is interesting. I wonder how many people involved in this thread have been given an IQ test by a professional in person as opposed to taking a test online. I had to take one when I was thirteen. For one question they asked me to draw a straight line. I couldn't. My hand shook because I'm sick. It's nice to know that anyone who would've answered all of the questions exactly the same as me but would've been able to draw a straight line because they're healthy would've gotten a higher score than me, and would be considered smarter.

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