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  1. #201
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Understand that we are using the term genius to refer to those individuals who score 164+ on an IQ test, per my OP; this is the only reason why the term is being used. Whether or not everyone who scores 164+ on an IQ test would be inclined to spend much time giving what you deem to be acceptable answers to the questions of strangers is another story.
    Well, he has ostensibly divulged quite enough information as it is. I do not see what about my simple queries is unacceptable. I did not ask for a home address.
    "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
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  2. #202
    A window to the soul
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    How are we defining God here?
    Did you read my post? Just as in the dictionary, I'm referring to two definitions of God: originator of the universe and the supernatural being we worship. I trust your IQ will kick in when you read my post ;)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Einstein once said, "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." To put that in the proper context, Einstein did not believe in the Christian God, nor did he have a relationship with God. He believed in a platonic God or God "the creator." However, Galileo and Newton did believe in the personal Christian God, if that gives you some peace of mind about my initial point that some of the most brilliant minds believed in God. Letting go of our ego is a conscious effort isn't it? We choose to go from platonic to personal to become fully integrated and whole.

    It sounds like you are making the distinction between a relationship with a personal God/Jesus (psyche) vs. a platonic God the creator (ego), is that correct? I don't dispute that. Keep in mind though, I'm speaking very high level here; I'm talking step one, believing God exists. Step two is opening ourselves up to the psyche to form communication/relationship with God. (As in going from head knowledge to heart knowledge.) Einstein took the first step. Again, Galileo and Newton went beyond that.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    Source: Dawkins, Richard. The God Delusion, pp.36-41.

    Einstein was a pantheist.
    Correct, that supports what I just said. Did any of you read my post?

    @Within: That goes for you too. :p

  4. #204
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Did you read my post? Just as in the dictionary, I'm referring to two definitions of God: originator of the universe and the supernatural being we worship. I trust your IQ will kick in when you read my post ...
    I read the post that I quoted, but I missed the one where you provided a definition. I do wonder if it would ever be possible to deduce that a personal Christian God exists apart from having said God appear before you and validate the bible. They might have believed that God must exist because of some observations, but there isn't a way to logically come to that conclusion.
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  5. #205
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    Well, he has ostensibly divulged quite enough information as it is. I do not see what about my simple queries is unacceptable. I did not ask for a home address.
    I don't find it unacceptable, I was just providing some context for the terminology. I'd be interested to know his official score and where he was tested as well, but didn't want to come across as suspicious or distrusting by asking him.
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  6. #206
    Senior Member Sanctus Iacobus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    I simply find it difficult to believe that an individual who displays absolutely no remarkable signs of intellect would fall under the category "genius" (a term I would distance from IQ, as it traditionally describes ability, not performing well on a standardized test). There is a particular "dullness" to his explanations that I do not find consistent with highly developed intelligence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Understand that we are using the term genius to refer to those individuals who score 164+ on an IQ test, per my OP; this is the only reason why the term is being used. Whether or not everyone who scores 164+ on an IQ test would be inclined to spend much time giving what you deem to be acceptable answers to the questions of strangers is another story.
    I think we are getting to what I am trying to describe is the difference between actual gift of high intelligence and a willing and ambitious mind if we make a vector of thought from these two points, A (Lex's post) to B (JB's post) to C (what I am proposing here as the difference between the two).

    Lex says there are no "signs" of intelligence, JB says what is the genius inclined to do?, so let's continue this vector of thought from these to points, A>B>C... and C is my point here: people who have a gift of high intelligence simply have it, in an inescapable sense, and this is not to be confused for or misinterpreted by the bright, willing, and ambitious minds such as yourselves, if you believe so. And, perhaps ironically, this is also how you can tell the difference, is to what degree a person understands this nature of things.

    Of the 3 of us, Lex seems the most ambitious mind, look at how he questions my credentials! Because to Lex intelligence is a matter of knowledge application, this requires effort, desire, an ambitious mind to do so! So if we are to applaud intelligence, I say why, unless we thank God for giving it to a person... why not the ambitious mind, I would think that is more commendable. JB is sort of in the middle I think, he is looking for balanced answers without pulling any punches. Myself, as Lex points out, am not terribly inclined to express intelligence much anymore, and I would say out of the 3 of us I would come last in this topic because I've lost much of whatever ambition I had to learn.

    What I am trying to achieve here is to enlighten you all to the notion that the entire "qualitative association" with genius is skewed because to ambitious minds project a sense of elitism that simply is not necessary for geniuses to have. Not to say geniuses aren't more inclined to pride (quite the contrary, it is a curse in that sense) but all I am simply saying is that the matter of aptitude does not detract from the fact that geniuses are merely human and we cannot let the supposed "echelons of human thought" and projected sense of elitism and (which are all simply pride) cloud this fact. In other words, let us look past the mind and consider the heart. What you find will surprise you.

    Also, yes we all get bored and this is a form of my own amusement. I hope nobody takes my toying personally, I mean no harm.

    My traditional IQ is 146 and my spacial IQ is in the 170s, and I took the MENSA IQ test for the traditional score. it's hard to explain but I use spacial thinking as a method of organization for all other kinds of thinking, it's more efficient to think simply in terms of shapes in space, and attach values and form relationships between these. I prefer this over any other styles of thinking because it has minimal "overhead", nearly limitless scalability, and yet like an analogue clock or camera, retains entirely raw accuracy of information. This is part of why how I communicate is basic, it's also so that anyone can understand what I'm saying. But think about it... I am not an INTP braniac or an INTJ megamind or anything like that, I am an ESTP and my intelligence is shapes (Se?)... so? Intelligence is not what we think it is, there are lots of different ways of thinking and ultimately what we have in common is that we're human. That's why I don't really think it is good for us to focus on IQ scores and such like they are so noteworthy.

  7. #207
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Your logic does not follow and is vague to begin with. One can be "ambitious" and intelligent, "ambitious" and unintelligent, unambitious and intelligent, and unambitious and unintelligent.
    "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
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  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    Source: Dawkins, Richard. The God Delusion, pp.36-41.

    Einstein was a pantheist.
    In a sense.

  9. #209
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    I think the difference here between Lex and myself is use of Fe; I'm inclined to use it and he is not. In a way, this is a delight for me because I can learn more about jwn86 by viewing his responses to different types of stimuli. It isn't that the same thoughts don't cross my mind as his, but that my agenda is different.
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  10. #210
    Senior Member Sanctus Iacobus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    Your logic does not follow and is vague to begin with. One can be "ambitious" and intelligent, "ambitious" and unintelligent, unambitious and intelligent, and unambitious and unintelligent.
    Yes, I know. Although I've found the smarter people tend to become lazy. At least I have. and when I do I find that intelligence does not matter as much as ambition, which is why I herald it more than being highly intelligent. I certainly understand why a lot of the people like Sidis get sick of their life and want a normal life and a normal occupation. Christopher Langan is a bouncer. Myself I am planning to become a carpenter and construction contractor and I really don't want anything to do with complicated thinking and philosophy, it's become kind of a headache.

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