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  1. #151
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonance View Post
    there's no logical flaw. "Doctors tend to be more intelligent than people of almost any other profession". That doesn't mean there won't be dumb doctors, it just means that if you pick any random doctor, there's a better than 50% chance that they're smarter than someone of any other profession.
    Does that change the fact that nobody needs to know that and that it is dangerous half-knowledge ? You are on the other hand not reacting to what I say.

    You're the one who's projecting these meanings into the statistics and then shooting them down. You're arguing with yourself basically :p
    This is the essence of self-reflection, a thing you may lack if you draw your knowledge from statistics
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #152
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Does that change the fact that nobody needs to know that and that it is dangerous half-knowledge ? You are on the other hand not reacting to what I say.
    It's not half-knowledge if you treat it as it is. The only half-knowledge is the public misconceptions about statistics overall, which applies to any other field of knowledge just as well.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  3. #153
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonance View Post
    It's not half-knowledge if you treat it as it is. The only half-knowledge is the public misconceptions about statistics overall, which applies to any other field of knowledge just as well.
    The nazis had a similiar reasoning
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #154
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    The nazis had a similiar reasoning
    No, they did not.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  5. #155
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    If you say so

    Eventually tho the nazis changed
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #156
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    From "alive" to "dead"? :o
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  7. #157
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Exactly
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #158
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    @jwn86

    I'd like to begin by thanking you for sharing your thoughts and story with us. I have a fascination with the human experience, especially those facets to which I have trouble relating, as is the case with genius. I am no stranger to 'intellectual' subject matter, and spend much of my time in deep and rigorous contemplation; but I cannot pretend to understand the mind of someone who teaches himself eight languages by the age of eight (Sidis) or someone who teaches himself calculus before the age of twelve (Jacob Barnett). I have a few comments and follow up questions which I have presented below.



    Quote Originally Posted by jwn86 View Post
    I'm skeptical of the claims that high IQ makes conversation difficult because I believe intelligence isn't intelligence unless it works accurately, i.e. reflects reality accurately. There are exceptions to this like Kim Peek who are especially brilliant in certain aptitudes due to a lack in others, but for the most part I believe it is the responsibility of a so-called above-average intellect to consider the circumstances as part of the challenge of life and apply itself, leaving little excuse for poor communication skills.
    The difficulty of a thing isn't always a product of limited physical or intellectual ability, but limited motivation and desire. A person can be presented with the task of killing his own child, a task which mechanically isn't a particularly difficult one; however, the emotional hurdles might be near insurmountable. As I understand it, communication issues arise because there are fundamental differences between the two parties as a result of divergent intellects: different communication styles, depths of understanding, interests, etc. These differences make interaction less rewarding, and as a result less desirable.



    Quote Originally Posted by jwn86 View Post
    I wouldn't say high IQ is meaningless, it's just that the meaning is a lot different than people think, vastly different. It's such a distinction that I can tell people who are a high IQ from especially ambitious minds (and these people also score well on IQ tests). For the record, an ambitious mind is far better and results of various historical figures will show this. I don't want anyone to think I smell of elitism here because I don't, I find ambitious people like yourself as far more admirable than those who are simply born with this aptitude.

    I've always been able to tell the these people apart but it's hard to explain the difference. It's sort of like the difference between people who live in the city, dress expensively, drive a H3 and wear jewelry and sunglasses everywhere from a high performing movie actor or musician. One person has an ambition for fame, the other is simply born with an inescapable quality... this evidences itself in a way that can't be faked. So I've found those who truly have it are usually those like myself who are trying to escape themselves and the way they are naturally than those who pursue intelligence for the sake of it. For instance, another high IQ person in this thread is "whatever", although she may not even know this or care. It's tough to explain but it's just something you sense about a person.
    I am a bit at odds with the sentiments expressed in these paragraphs. You mention that you can tell a person with a high IQ from those with especially ambitious minds (who you say also score well on IQ tests), and go on to assert that whatever is one of those individuals with a high IQ (which I assume is analogous to genius, since if it weren't, she would simply be a bright person who is unambitious -- *per your distinction between the high IQ and the ambitious mind). It isn't that I disagree with the statement; from what I've seen, whatever appears to be relatively intelligent. However, I must inquire as to your reasons behind your assessment, and the apparent overconfidence with which you present such judgments.



    Quote Originally Posted by jwn86 View Post
    My life experience is somewhat similar to the article about the "outsiders" above.

    There is really not that much to say about my life. I'm kind of an extremest. When I was young I realized I had such an awareness of things that where people saw walls, I saw nothing. So I could "walk through walls" in a mental sense. It's hard to explain but it leads to a... euhm... different kind of life and existence, and not one I would describe as friendly. Everyone was afraid, in a way, whether they would admit it (and nobody would), and you could tell just how someone was and what they were afraid of, what they were hiding and hiding from, by the walls they kept in. Early off in life I was determined to knock every one of them down.
    I wonder if you could elaborate on these 'walls' that other people face. I recall in my youth believing that I understood the truth behind things, while others seemed incapable of escaping the confines of their own ignorance. However, as I have matured I've found that it is often easy to see the walls which surround others, but even easier to be oblivious to those which surround ourselves. Is this sentiment not simply a product of youth?



    Quote Originally Posted by jwn86 View Post
    One of the first things I remember feeling was the value of truth and wisdom. Knowledge was something everyone had in different qualities and quantities, stored within their walls. But truth and wisdom was something greater, like the mind as a verb rather than a noun, a how instead of a what... and to me of highest value because it provided some kind of anchor in a world without borders. For a lot of my early life until recently I've been devoted to finding "THE" anchor. Christopher Langan, the so-called smartest man in the world I believe calls it his "theory of everything". In a way, it's what everyone is looking for, so again we can see that IQ is not terribly meaningful.

    By the time I was a teenager I had already mentally jumped over most of the hurdles that the adults I knew struggled with. At around the age 12 I found that I had already meditated upon just about every purpose of life and found it to be meaningless. I slipped into depression for about 10+ years, but I still never gave up my quest for "the thing". I guess you could call it the meaning of life. Oops I already said that.

    So until I was 18 I was pretty restless. I used this time to meditate and perfect a lot of things like awareness of self and others, self control, etc. It was a very boring time and I played a lot of video games. I actually created a lot of problems for myself just because at a certain point it's the only thing left to do.

    ....

    All of this amounted to nothing of value to me and a deep sense of burn-out set in. Much like James Sidis and Christopher Langan, I resigned myself from pretty much everything most people would call intelligent and wanted a "normal" life and occupation. However, my consciousness was inescapable and I wasn't dead yet. When I was 21 I found an escape in drinking and marijuana. Just like everything else in life, substance abuse was something I eventually "excelled" in. I had a few failed relationships in this time mostly due to my overwhelming apathy. At one point, I figured my life was useless and decided to join the Navy SEALs so it could at least be useful for something. I trained for about 4 months but never ended up joining.

    About a year and a half ago, I reached what I would describe the point of accepting that everything was meaningless. I had more ability, opportunity, and means to discover the meaning of life and I had considered everything, looked everywhere, and found nothing. I had a total breakdown. I stumbled across a mini-book version of "the Purpose Driven Life" in my downtown apartment and that gave me a tiny sliver of hope because it claimed life wasn't about me. Apparently, the meaning of life is God. So amidst a total breakdown I prayed for help. From that point in time, it's become clear to me that God has carried my life forward.

    Today I'm a very happy man. I finally discovered the "thing", the ultimate truth, the meaning of life, the thing we all search for. You might be surprised at what it is, though. It is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ rose from the dead almost 2,000 years ago and is alive today. At this point I'm sure my intellectual credibility is shot, but I am not insane in the least. I feel more healthy and balanced than I have in my entire life. Anyways, the ultimate truth, the theory of everything, the meaning of life, what have you... is Jesus. It's all about Jesus. I'm serious. And that's where I am today.
    I liken the search for meaning in life to running from emptiness. Those individuals who are spiritually replete are content to fit nicely into the framework of society. For those of us who aren't so lucky, we spend our lives running through the ethereal halls of our intellects, opening doors until we find the room which contains that 'truth' which satiates our hunger. The irony, however, is that there isn't an absolute truth (at least one that the human intellect is capable of comprehending). However, there is 'your truth', and so long as you feel content in that truth, then I wish you well.

    Some of the greatest geniuses of recorded history have died without ever feeling that contentment.



    Quote Originally Posted by jwn86 View Post
    When I was 18 I moved out with a fresh level of freedom to conquer. I was raised in a religious home, but I threw out everything I new and started from a fresh slate free from controlled influences. I considered myself agnostic and being quite the pragmatic, I considered money to be the most useful thing to attain so I decided to start there. I rented equipment and read books and trained myself. A month before my 20th birthday I got a job as an engineer. My starting salary was $125,000 a year. I was still a teenager when I got my first paycheck for about $3,700 bi-monthly.

    Due to my age, many people I worked with though I wouldn't last. I was given a lot of work that was entirely original with no established procedures... something that challenged the seasoned professionals I worked with. I can't assume it was to get rid of me but it sometimes seemed that way. Anyways, I worked that job for over 3 years and received over 100% on all except 1 quarterly review and was promoted twice.

    Despite the challenge of my job, I completed most of my work in under 30 hours a week and wasn't what you would call "diligent" in my being at work during business hours. So I had quite a bit of free time and money and I experimented with all sorts of things in life. I guess you could call it living the "high life". During this time I also succeeded in a number of activities. In an intellectual sense the most notable was poker. I found the same kind of success and found little competition, although I never played at $10,000+ stakes so it's not assumable that this would persist against professional players.
    I would be interested to know more about how you acquired a remarkably high paying engineering job without any formal schooling (unless you graduated college at 19). I do not by any means disbelieve; I'm simply curious about how you got your foot in the door. How extensive were your studies? Subjects? What type of engineering? Which business? Project examples? If you didn't go to college, why not? Did you graduate high school at a young age? Basically, I'd like to know more about your education (both formal and self study), since a unique educational path seems common among genius.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #159
    Senior Member Lily flower's Avatar
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    Children with high IQ's very frequently have serious social skills issues. It's just hard for them to relate to children their own age. I don't know if it gets better when you are adult or not.

  10. #160
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwn86 View Post
    I'm skeptical of the claims that high IQ makes conversation difficult because I believe intelligence isn't intelligence unless it works accurately, i.e. reflects reality accurately. There are exceptions to this like Kim Peek who are especially brilliant in certain aptitudes due to a lack in others, but for the most part I believe it is the responsibility of a so-called above-average intellect to consider the circumstances as part of the challenge of life and apply itself, leaving little excuse for poor communication skills.

    I wouldn't say high IQ is meaningless, it's just that the meaning is a lot different than people think, vastly different. It's such a distinction that I can tell people who are a high IQ from especially ambitious minds (and these people also score well on IQ tests). For the record, an ambitious mind is far better and results of various historical figures will show this. I don't want anyone to think I smell of elitism here because I don't, I find ambitious people like yourself as far more admirable than those who are simply born with this aptitude.

    I've always been able to tell the these people apart but it's hard to explain the difference. It's sort of like the difference between people who live in the city, dress expensively, drive a H3 and wear jewelry and sunglasses everywhere from a high performing movie actor or musician. One person has an ambition for fame, the other is simply born with an inescapable quality... this evidences itself in a way that can't be faked. So I've found those who truly have it are usually those like myself who are trying to escape themselves and the way they are naturally than those who pursue intelligence for the sake of it. For instance, another high IQ person in this thread is "whatever", although she may not even know this or care. It's tough to explain but it's just something you sense about a person.

    My life experience is somewhat similar to the article about the "outsiders" above.

    There is really not that much to say about my life. I'm kind of an extremest. When I was young I realized I had such an awareness of things that where people saw walls, I saw nothing. So I could "walk through walls" in a mental sense. It's hard to explain but it leads to a... euhm... different kind of life and existence, and not one I would describe as friendly. Everyone was afraid, in a way, whether they would admit it (and nobody would), and you could tell just how someone was and what they were afraid of, what they were hiding and hiding from, by the walls they kept in. Early off in life I was determined to knock every one of them down.

    One of the first things I remember feeling was the value of truth and wisdom. Knowledge was something everyone had in different qualities and quantities, stored within their walls. But truth and wisdom was something greater, like the mind as a verb rather than a noun, a how instead of a what... and to me of highest value because it provided some kind of anchor in a world without borders. For a lot of my early life until recently I've been devoted to finding "THE" anchor. Christopher Langan, the so-called smartest man in the world I believe calls it his "theory of everything". In a way, it's what everyone is looking for, so again we can see that IQ is not terribly meaningful.

    By the time I was a teenager I had already mentally jumped over most of the hurdles that the adults I knew struggled with. At around the age 12 I found that I had already meditated upon just about every purpose of life and found it to be meaningless. I slipped into depression for about 10+ years, but I still never gave up my quest for "the thing". I guess you could call it the meaning of life. Oops I already said that.

    So until I was 18 I was pretty restless. I used this time to meditate and perfect a lot of things like awareness of self and others, self control, etc. It was a very boring time and I played a lot of video games. I actually created a lot of problems for myself just because at a certain point it's the only thing left to do.

    When I was 18 I moved out with a fresh level of freedom to conquer. I was raised in a religious home, but I threw out everything I new and started from a fresh slate free from controlled influences. I considered myself agnostic and being quite the pragmatic, I considered money to be the most useful thing to attain so I decided to start there. I rented equipment and read books and trained myself. A month before my 20th birthday I got a job as an engineer. My starting salary was $125,000 a year. I was still a teenager when I got my first paycheck for about $3,700 bi-monthly.

    Due to my age, many people I worked with though I wouldn't last. I was given a lot of work that was entirely original with no established procedures... something that challenged the seasoned professionals I worked with. I can't assume it was to get rid of me but it sometimes seemed that way. Anyways, I worked that job for over 3 years and received over 100% on all except 1 quarterly review and was promoted twice.

    Despite the challenge of my job, I completed most of my work in under 30 hours a week and wasn't what you would call "diligent" in my being at work during business hours. So I had quite a bit of free time and money and I experimented with all sorts of things in life. I guess you could call it living the "high life". During this time I also succeeded in a number of activities. In an intellectual sense the most notable was poker. I found the same kind of success and found little competition, although I never played at $10,000+ stakes so it's not assumable that this would persist against professional players.

    All of this amounted to nothing of value to me and a deep sense of burn-out set in. Much like James Sidis and Christopher Langan, I resigned myself from pretty much everything most people would call intelligent and wanted a "normal" life and occupation. However, my consciousness was inescapable and I wasn't dead yet. When I was 21 I found an escape in drinking and marijuana. Just like everything else in life, substance abuse was something I eventually "excelled" in. I had a few failed relationships in this time mostly due to my overwhelming apathy. At one point, I figured my life was useless and decided to join the Navy SEALs so it could at least be useful for something. I trained for about 4 months but never ended up joining.

    About a year and a half ago, I reached what I would describe the point of accepting that everything was meaningless. I had more ability, opportunity, and means to discover the meaning of life and I had considered everything, looked everywhere, and found nothing. I had a total breakdown. I stumbled across a mini-book version of "the Purpose Driven Life" in my downtown apartment and that gave me a tiny sliver of hope because it claimed life wasn't about me. Apparently, the meaning of life is God. So amidst a total breakdown I prayed for help. From that point in time, it's become clear to me that God has carried my life forward.

    Today I'm a very happy man. I finally discovered the "thing", the ultimate truth, the meaning of life, the thing we all search for. You might be surprised at what it is, though. It is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ rose from the dead almost 2,000 years ago and is alive today. At this point I'm sure my intellectual credibility is shot, but I am not insane in the least. I feel more healthy and balanced than I have in my entire life. Anyways, the ultimate truth, the theory of everything, the meaning of life, what have you... is Jesus. It's all about Jesus. I'm serious. And that's where I am today.
    Troll post.

    Do you expect me to believe this ostensible life story of yours? Your rambling is barely coherent, and yet you are supposed to represent some figure with latent genius? Yes, only on the internet, pal.

    You strike me more as a struggling teenager with a slightly above average intelligence and far too much time on your hands.
    "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
    —Bonaparte

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