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  1. #41
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    So what's the solution?

    Aside from going to dumb sessions of therapy which I've already done and were a complete waste of time and money just so someone could point out the fucking obvious to me.

    I haven't found any practical solution to this, and I don't think there is an easy fix or anything.

    It's just a crappy emotional baggage that sticks to me. And there's nothing more I'd love than to throw it somewhere in a hole and just bury it.




    I guess people are a key factor in this. With the right people all these issues will go away like a bad dream. But with the wrong people these issues will get pretty hard to ignore and the bad dream will become my everyday feeling.


    Maybe I'm over analyzing this. As I always do with certain things.

    I don't know sometimes it's so easy to figure out how something works, but when you get to changing things...it's when you realize that the hard part has just began.

  2. #42
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    The odd thing about this statement, is that for me, I'm almost too adept in the skill of detachment. I do all of the above things without much insight into them, or why I do that or how to fix it. (I'm normally a problem solver, I don't dwell in problems, but this is one that I just can't seem to figure out!) The number one complaint from men towards me is "You don't care." But if you read all of the above, it looks like I care too much, I've just developed a good ability to appear emotionless.
    That is the interesting part... and you are even aware of it. Is there any way to connect your outside back up to your inside? It sounds like you severed the connection in order to protect yourself... or that you just didn't develop the external part.

    Edit: A couple of other things. My closest friends are usually from broken families, (not all of them, but the ones that I develop that deep bond of everlasting friendship with- which is great because I get that understanding from them without feeling that they are going to "leave.")
    That's the same with me -- people who have suffered some pretty bad rejection and/or horrible loss in their lives. We have a connection point, we "get each other," and so we tend to sync up and then stay connected. (although I'm referring mainly to the ones who are aware of it and can articulate things; those who are just basket cases and reactive to everything without having some insight into themselves are people who tend to latch on and drag others along with them.)

    Also, when I see nuclear families, (not as common nowadays,) I think the relationships look strange to me. I try to observe their behaviors and see how they work- I almost feel like an autistic kid trying to figure out social behaviors, except a broken kid trying to figure out the behaviors of the people who are whole regarding their family life. I have excellent relations with my mom and extended family, but the actual nuclear family unit is always really strange to me. I'm not sure if that makes any sense. The families that I have felt fully "welcomed" all had some broken factor. Maybe it's because I feel that they are not a closed unit... (All in my head, of course.)
    I think I know what you mean. And sometimes it's similar to that weird feeling you might experience if you say a word too many times and REALLY listen to it... it suddenly makes no sense, seems alien, random, unfathomable. SO I can go through these motions of how to be in a family because I Know it's what works, rather than really "getting it."

    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    So what's the solution? Aside from going to dumb sessions of therapy which I've already done and were a complete waste of time and money just so someone could point out the fucking obvious to me.
    I avoided therapy for years and years for the same reason -- I didn't think there was anything anyone could tell me that I couldn't figure out for myself.

    When I finally went, I realized that I had been correct... I typically did not get new insight from the therapist... but it DID (1) put me in an environment where I finally could just be me without changing who I was to please someone else or avoid conflict, (2) make me feel that someone cared enough to listen, so I must be worth something, and (3) helped me explore myself and figure out more what I needed.

    There was a period of time where I had to learn how to hear and listen to my own "voice" and not be ashamed of it. The therapist was very very helpful as a neutral listener during that time. They had nothing at stake by letting me be whoever I was going to be.

    I don't think there is an easy fix or anything.
    No, it's not. It's far too complicated/nuanced to be just a quick fix.

    I guess people are a key factor in this. With the right people all these issues will go away like a bad dream. But with the wrong people these issues will get pretty hard to ignore and the bad dream will become my everyday feeling.
    That's part of it. You need to have a few people in your life who you can trust. .. and then make a conscious decision to trust, when you inevitably freak... or who you make all of this clear to so that they know when you get weird that they need to engage you and reaffirm they're not leaving, rather than just dumping you because they think you don't care anymore.

    I don't know sometimes it's so easy to figure out how something works, but when you get to changing things...it's when you realize that the hard part has just began.
    Lol... yup. It's always easier to plan how to climb the mountain than it is to actually take step after step until you reach the top.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #43
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    1. Do you fear abandonment? Even if there is no real threat of abandonment? (but only when you deeply care about someone) Do you sometimes feel as if the person you love would just run away or prefer someone else? And ironically the behavior which results from this fear pushes that person away.

    Only if I care deeply for that person. In that case, I tend to appear a little flighty because I don't want to be the one ruining the relationship. I'm not sure how to put this other than not appearing "over the top." I don't want to appear clingy either.

    EDIT:Half-heartedness is the answer to that question. So yes, in a way I fear abandonment, but the fear is more towards me getting hurt than anything else. It is a (not so good) way to cope with people. If things get awry, the fallback is that I won't be as hurt because I did not invest myself fully to get hurt.



    2. Do you need too much affection and love from the person you care about? And not receiving it results in you feeling that they don't love you at all.


    I may sometimes look like I am emotionally unavailable, but I do show love and affection to those I care about. Receiving it, on the other hand, is a slightly different topic. Just being there is really all the love and affection I need. Everything else is just the icing on the cake.

    3. Do you generally feel incomplete? And when you love someone you feel as if the person completes you, thus the abandonment fear, because you not only lose the person you care about, you lose a part of yourself which is not coming back.

    There are definitely many ways that I can improve. When I love/care about someone, it is because I think we are compatible to some degree. As for completeness.... well... the relationships I get into are because there is something I like in that person.

    4. Do you get jealous easily?

    Nope. Ok, maybe how I act may look like I'm jealous. Ok, scratch that. I guess I tend to get kind of jealous at people who are "determined" (i.e. know what they want to do/where they want to go/how they are going to get there/etc.) But that is because I'm generally doing things a bit "half-heartily" as some people may put it. It is kind of like I wished I can be more like that, it would make decisions a lot easier and not having to worry about other people's input. It also means that I won't have to worry as much if I do end up hurting other people (as well as myself) because it also means that I'm giving myself fully to the people I come in contact with.

    5. Are your relationships erratic? Do you meet many people but break contact with almost all even if you don't want to?

    I have longstanding relationships. It is the newer ones that tend to be more "erratic." If I meet people I don't want to break contact with, I create contacts or they create a contact with me. I can still be a bit flighty though.

    6. Do you get in relationships with people which will confirm your fears?
    I try not to. I rather get into ones that don't confirm my fears. The ones that I feel like are going to last quite a long time. Relationships are a two way street, however, and I need to learn to "be there" just as others are there. Can't expect to have a full response from others when I'm half-heartily there. But my assumption for the reason why I do that is I don't want myself to be the one that is hurt.


    I invest, not digress.

  4. #44
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    My mother and I left my father when I was about 6 weeks old. I have never met him. The only relationship we had is a DNA test to prove that he was my father so he would have to pay child support. He denied he was my father many times and ran from the government. I had his last name, but when I was about 9 yrs. old, my mother changed it to her own last name, wishing to sever all connections. (They were engaged, never married.)

    Essentially, being born without a father is like being born blind or without a body part. It's just reality. I know about fathers and people with fathers, and they think that life is somehow enhanced with one. (Like, someone's life is enhanced with two legs- to someone with one leg, it's hard to say one way or the other.)

    As a seemingly separate issue, I have major problems with relationships- I have great difficulty compared to the norm. I know people nowadays have really bad problems with them. Mine are completely beyond my comprehension. It's not that I outwardly break out in all these fights and stuff. But there's this constant feeling as though I'm alone, i can never feel oneness with someone. I do not tell my partners everything, hardly anything really. I'm afraid to. I don't know why I'm afraid to reveal any point of vulnerability in romantic relationships, I just am. I just can't use my words. I'm "hard to get" in almost any situation where I get asked out. The answer is "No" 99 percent of the time. No reason. Just "no." It's not a game, it's just my answer until the brave become persistent enough to ask three or four times, or smart enough to learn my complicated "route." Most give up though. (Lucky for them, because after the complications of getting me, there's the complication of never really getting to know me.) I'm just the generally happy, giggly, fun loving girl who goes in the room and locks the door if there's anything else going on. Some of my best friends said they wouldn't wish their worst enemy to be in a romantic relationship with me. Because though I'm not mean or manipulative or any stereotypical female problem, I just am not cut out for romantic closeness. In the same breath, I am a hopeless romantic. Figure that one out.

    So, I considered this a separate trait for years. Something to be "overcome", not babied, ignored. I'm just now making the connection that this could have stemmed from being fatherless..Not consciously, that's for sure.(There is actually no sense of anger, hurt, or abandonment when I think about my father, though.. No emotional reaction at all.) .
    First, thanks for your honesty.
    I'm much the same as you. I hunger for deep, intimate relationships, but I just can't do it. I pull back, become unavailable, stop feeling anything. This also makes me settle for relationships where I won't be hurt
    I have come to know that this is due to my father's emotional absense. I wasn't hit or called names (although my siblings were). I was simply ignored, not nurtured at all by him. He was physically present, but emotionally absent. And this is the fall out from that.

  5. #45
    Senior Member FunnyDigestion's Avatar
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    When i read a lot of this stuff, about people's emotional baggage & problems in relationships, i feel like a bit of an idiot. It takes so little from people to make me happy, just to be around me or not completely ignore me when i try to talk to them is enough to satisfy me really. I don't push people away, it seems that people in the end just invariably ARE away. in spite of any connection that happened. my father & I don't have any problems.
    RCUAI
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    "Man is free, but his freedom ceases when he has no faith in it."

  6. #46
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    Wow, this thread made me cry a bit. I feel that connection with those who have fathers who just didn't do their job.

    Both of my parents did a lot of hard core drugs and drank endlessly when I was younger but my mom came out of it by the time I was 3. My dad, on the other hand, is a massive alcoholic. He's moved me 13 times in my life and then has abandoned our family in the midst of the unfamiliar to find his own friends and live his own life away from us. It always happens.
    My father is the type of man who believes that women are here to clean up and tend to men. It has been the biggest war in our family, considering he's never around and then he comes home, invites friends to drink and party in our house and then makes us girls clean up after them. Not my brother mind you; my mom, sisters and I. He doesn't believe we have anything of worth to say and he tells us this often. Honestly, I know my fear of men came from him. For so long I was so deeply afraid of males and always thought they were above me. I let them take advantage of me because I thought I deserved it because they were above me.

    I always just wanted him to love me, but I know that so many things in life are more important than me to him. It's caused a lot of grief and heart ache. I didn't know how a man should treat me for a long time because I've never been shown. He has instilled a lot of loneliness, self worthlessness, fear, and depression in me growing up. Going back to the OP, I definitely feel stronger knowing that I CAN survive and I can better myself. Who I am is who I choose to be and NOT what a crappy parent has forced on me. I am bound for greatness and I AM loved! My father does not define me.

    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    Ok, now for the second part of the thread, I have some questions.

    1. Do you fear abandonment? Even if there is no real threat of abandonment? (but only when you deeply care about someone)

    Do you sometimes feel as if the person you love would just run away or prefer someone else? And ironically the behavior which results from this fear pushes that person away.
    Occasionally, but that has to do with the fact that I have been abandoned on many occasions. I just stop caring.

    2. Do you need too much affection and love from the person you care about? And not receiving it results in you feeling that they don't love you at all.
    Ick, guilty.

    3. Do you generally feel incomplete?

    And when you love someone you feel as if the person completes you, thus the abandonment fear, because you not only lose the person you care about, you lose a part of yourself which is not coming back.
    No. I've learned a long time ago that people will never complete me, I'm the only one who can complete myself.

    4. Do you get jealous easily?
    I'm going to say yes, but I've been given reason to many times. I hate that about me.

    5. Are you relationships erratic? Do you meet many people but break contact with almost all even if you don't want to? It just comes naturally.
    Yes.

    6. Do you get in relationships with people which will confirm your fears?
    I use to, but not anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

  7. #47
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That is the interesting part... and you are even aware of it. Is there any way to connect your outside back up to your inside? It sounds like you severed the connection in order to protect yourself... or that you just didn't develop the external part.
    Yea, exactly, or... something like that. I'm not even quite sure I understand it myself. Since it doesn't appear that there is actual "emotional" damage. I mean, I'm not a big cryer or dweller or anything. You certainly won't catch me on intervention blaming a serious addiction on anything outside of myself. I can also intellectualize the whole thing pretty well. But there is just that disconnect. I even tried physically saying the words out loud to boyfriends. Explaining to them what's happening just like I'm explaining it to you. But that just makes it even more confusing to the other party. People don't like to hear, "I am physically unable to open up or feel oneness with someone." My ex asked me a few times why I acted so different around his (nuclear) family. My logical guess was that I wasn't sure how to act in these situations, I didn't understand the dynamics or where I belonged. Role confusion.



    That's the same with me -- people who have suffered some pretty bad rejection and/or horrible loss in their lives. We have a connection point, we "get each other," and so we tend to sync up and then stay connected. (although I'm referring mainly to the ones who are aware of it and can articulate things; those who are just basket cases and reactive to everything without having some insight into themselves are people who tend to latch on and drag others along with them.)
    Right! Exactly. You hit the nail on the head, there. It's a comfort zone... Some kind of a different mentality. I don't want to sound like a "special, broken damaged snowflake- only other damaged broken snowflakes relate to me"...



    I think I know what you mean. And sometimes it's similar to that weird feeling you might experience if you say a word too many times and REALLY listen to it... it suddenly makes no sense, seems alien, random, unfathomable. SO I can go through these motions of how to be in a family because I Know it's what works, rather than really "getting it."
    Right. "I know this works, I know it makes sense, it looks great- now how do you go about this? "



    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyDigestion View Post
    When i read a lot of this stuff, about people's emotional baggage & problems in relationships, i feel like a bit of an idiot. It takes so little from people to make me happy, just to be around me or not completely ignore me when i try to talk to them is enough to satisfy me really. I don't push people away, it seems that people in the end just invariably ARE away. in spite of any connection that happened. my father & I don't have any problems.
    you're surrounded by people who come from weird situations, it's not your fault! There should almost be a Society for Normal Families since they are starting to get so few and far between.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

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  8. #48
    Senior Member FunnyDigestion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayoitsStepho View Post
    I always just wanted him to love me, but I know that so many things in life are more important than me to him. It's caused a lot of grief and heart ache. I didn't know how a man should treat me for a long time because I've never been shown. He has instilled a lot of loneliness, self worthlessness, fear, and depression in me growing up. Going back to the OP, I definitely feel stronger knowing that I CAN survive and I can better myself. Who I am is who I choose to be and NOT what a crappy parent has forced on me. I am bound for greatness and I AM loved! My father does not define me.
    it seems bad to say about your own father, but a person like that just isn't worth caring about. Fuck that! he sounds like a narcissist. it's not like a father has to do any hard work to become a father. a bad mother at least has more of an excuse since they went thru the pain of childbirth. ugh, it's stories like yours that make me so angry & distrustful sometimes!

    RCUAI
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    "Man is free, but his freedom ceases when he has no faith in it."

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