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  1. #11
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    It would seem on surface that 'J' would win a fight because J's have it together and can be 'hardcore' about their habits, their plans, and basically their actions and want to implement order and direct P's freeform energy.

    HOWEVER, I think 'P' wins because as some people have alluded to, P's drive y'all CRAZY. We will drive you nuts into an early grave.

    And I say this with utmost pride and respect when I say my dad is possibly the most anal person you will ever meet short of being OCD. He's not obsessive compulsive or has a PDD that I know of, he's just incredibly on top of things. I think he's INTJ.

    As much as I found his insistence on finishing stuff and following rules and being logical borerline harassment growing up, I know I'm responsible for many more of his grey hairs! AHAHAHAHA. Between me and my INTP brother and my XXXP mom, I swear to god we all aged the poor man 15 years. I told my brother this too, but he's such a bastard (in this particular case, of the INTP variety) he doesn't care -- rather I don't think he quite comprehends.

    So yeah. P for the win. In the most indirect, frustrating way possible.

    Unless I work for you, your J'ness has no hold on me and even then... I think hardcore 'P's spend a lifetime perfecting the psychic/psychological/and interpersonal art of indirectly escaping your clutches. Or we're just so damn off in our own little grooves we don't even realize we're supposed to be listening to you...oh wait, sorry what was that? Were you talking to me?

    I know, it must be frustrating as hell.

    Hahahaha.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  2. #12
    Procrastinating
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    I'll have to think more about Pness as I'm the only one of them I know irl. But Jness.... oh, I have a view.

    Js are never, ever, ever wrong! Have nothing substantial to back that up and tend to talk down to me like I'm a child or less intelligent than they are.

  3. #13
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    I dunno if this is really a legitimate fight. Fe and Te doing drastically different things. Plenty of FJs are late for appointments etc. unless it's a social obligation.

    And I know plenty of INTPs who have great follow through. I have good followthrough on some projects too. Not because I'm experiencing a J moment. It's 'cause the thing genuinely interests me for long enough to complete it.

    I make plans -- and shockingly, I stick to them. Not always. If something much better comes up, then hell yes I'll rearrange my schedule. But usually, either I plan for the best possible activity, or just by good luck (or bad luck rather...) nothing better actually does come up. Ergo, no reason to alter my plan.

    The conventional understanding of the P/J dichotomy is icky.

    As for that though:

    I can be forgetful sure; that's P right? I never remember where I put anything. Not just my car keys. Goddamn iPod left in the fridge. $400 piece of musical equipment and I've put it in places like the fridge, and I've put it on my bed, and kicked it just before going to sleep, not remembering that I put it there.
    we fukin won boys

  4. #14
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    My P husband is punctual and anal about where he puts his things. I'm the one who is late and can't find her keys. We are both absent-minded slobs.

    Difference: I need plans and closure. He likes to play things by ear and keep his options open.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #15
    Senior Member nemo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    I'll have to think more about Pness...
    HAHAHAHAHAHA

    damnit, I'm immature.

    CzeCze is incredibly right about the various kinds of trickery hardcore Ps develop for getting into, and back out of, trouble, work, obligation, etc. I consider myself pretty hardcore P, and I do this sort of thing just for sh**'s and giggles.
    You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. - Jack London

  6. #16
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    J has already conquered half of P while P is still sitting by their laptop, clicking "New Posts" repeatedly, counting the endless steps that must be taken in planning a battle.

  7. #17
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    My P husband is punctual and anal about where he puts his things.
    Do you think his Pness makes him anal?



    *looks at nemo and covers mouth with hand*

  8. #18

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    I prefer to keep options open for as long as practical.

    Intuitively (at least by my intuition), that allows for more thoroughness.

    I think of it as optimising instead of satisficing.

    But its funny, I also get distracted a lot, and tend to wing things last minute, which leads to a LOT of satisficing.

    There is some "middle ground" some where we nail enough things down (sometimes doing some saticficing) so that we don't optimize just the stuff we worked on first and have to saticfice everything else.

    I wish I could find that middle ground.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  9. #19
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Do you think his Pness makes him anal?



    *looks at nemo and covers mouth with hand*
    Only if absentmindedness truly is a P trait. I think it is a combination of being aware of his absentmindedness (N) and his need for competence (T). I loose my keys and think "What a silly space cadet I am! What should I have for lunch?" He loses his keys and thinks "God! I'm such an idiot! I can't believe I did something so stupid!! I'm such a waste of oxygen!" That level of self-recrimination appears to be quite a motivator.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #20
    Senior Member nemo's Avatar
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    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    I hate you all.

    Especiallly Edahn!

    I seriously lol.

    That's what I get for sharing my weaknesses.

    I'm taking me and my hardcore Pness out of this thread (HAHAHAHAHA).

    - 11 years old.
    You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. - Jack London

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