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  1. #11
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Each to their own. /Anti-Fi

    I do think that fashion/beauty magazines are the devil though.

  2. #12
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    cosmetic surgery is for idiots if its not done for example reconstructing nose after some accident or to fix some mutated ear that you were born with
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    cosmetic surgery is for idiots if its not done for example reconstructing nose after some accident or to fix some mutated ear that you were born with
    What if they simply want to look better? It can have tremendous effects on how others react to them. Why is it idiotic to not settle for what genetics gave them?

  4. #14
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    cosmetic surgery is for idiots if its not done for example reconstructing nose after some accident or to fix some mutated ear that you were born with
    I can see why you would disagree with the decision, but how does that make the person an idiot? You can clearly see that there are costs and benefits behind the decision, but different people attach different values to objects. Because of this, I'm going to have to inform that this is just like, your opinion, man.

  5. #15
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Because of this, I'm going to have to inform that this is just like, your opinion, man.
    ofc its my opinion..
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    ofc its my opinion..
    What sort of information would you share with a person considering a cosmetic surgery?

  7. #17
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    What sort of information would you share with a person considering a cosmetic surgery?
    it depends on the person, if i knew her and would care about her(in any way) i would most likely try to talk her out of it, if i didnt know her i wouldnt care to talk to her. if it were a guy, i wouldnt know him in the first place, so wouldnt care to talk to him anyways. why?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    it depends on the person, if i knew her and would care about her(in any way) i would most likely try to talk her out of it, if i didnt know her i wouldnt care to talk to her. if it were a guy, i wouldnt know him in the first place, so wouldnt care to talk to him anyways. why?
    Lets say that you are against it, but the person is leaning towards it. I want to know how a person would articulate their thoughts on the matter. Assume you know the person enough to want to talk about the subject with them. What major points or core beliefs would you most likely bring into the discussion about cosmetic surgery? Go deeper than "thats stupid, don't do it"

  9. #19
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Lets say that you are against it, but the person is leaning towards it. I want to know how a person would articulate their thoughts on the matter. Assume you know the person enough to want to talk about the subject with them. What major points or core beliefs would you most likely bring into the discussion about cosmetic surgery? Go deeper than "thats stupid, don't do it"
    it depends on what other person would say about it. but generally it would be most likely debunking her pros about doing it and trying to make her see cons about it. trying to make her see that its not worth it..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  10. #20
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I think the OP wisely avoided anchoring her stance on the most recent case in the news that likely triggered this discussion, in light of specific information like this:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-pin-ears.html

    ...Her mother, Cami Roselles, told ABC News before the operation: 'The kids at school always ask her about her ears, and sometimes adults can be worse.

    'One lady walked up to her and said, 'Oh my God, what happened to your ears?' She's very sensitive, so it really does get to her.

    'I don't want her to be teased and bullied and then have her lash out and treat people the way she's being treated.'
    So two problems:
    - The ears were enough of an issue that even adults were acting inappropriately around the girl.
    - Bullying is the original problem, not a desire for cosmetic surgery -- the surgery was a solution in this situation to what was apparently a huge problem. The mother wouldn't have considered the operation for her daughter if not for the bullying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    In some places, this kind of surgery on children has a pretty long history - it's not just something recent in the Western world. According to Wikipedia, female genital cutting (FGC) is tradionally done in girls from four to six years old. You can read more about it here. In any case, it's nothing new, but the potential long-term psychological and biological problems worry me...
    I despise FGC as a practice and think it is a heinous thing, but how did this topic start on cosmetic surgery for girls to help them avoid bullying, and within only two posts end up on FGC? I would consider them explicitly different in the nuances and reasoning. (For example, I'm sure this mother who had her daughter's ears pinned back for me would have had a much different reaction to the thought of performing FGC... or do you think if they had lived in the culture where FGC was dominant, the mother would have done it for the same reasons?)

    Anyway, on the general topic, I considering having a girl's ears pulled back in situations where she has been explicitly bullied with no other apparent help available to be a minor issue compared to young girls feeling like they have to get breast implants before they've even finished developing naturally, or getting nose jobs, etc. (And we all know how subjective such things are; just look at Jennifer Grey's nose job as an adult and how many have felt that it made her less beautiful than more beautiful, or what a natural beauty like Meg Ryan did to her face.)

    While I think blatant cases of people throwing money at problems in order to make them go away is not necessarily the right course of action (often the right choice is to bear up under it, in order to challenge and change the culture + build personal character), I can't simply make a blanket statement about all instances of cosmetic surgery for children. I would rather take things on a case-by-case basis, if solely to respect the needs and wishes of the people who actually have to bear the burden of the situation driving the surgery (typically the parents and the child) rather than deciding for people from a safe distance.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    it depends on what other person would say about it. but generally it would be most likely debunking her pros about doing it and trying to make her see cons about it. trying to make her see that its not worth it..
    In this case, you lessen/resolve the social issues driving the need for the surgery. This particular instance was driven by legitimate physical and social dangers, not by the mother or daughter's need to "look a certain way" all on their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    I do think it's getting crazy--though I saw a thing on the yahoo homepage the other day about a little girl getting her ears pinned back so she wouldn't be bullied, and I thought, "What a non-story." Kids have been getting their ears pinned back since the dawn of time. Your ears are 90% of the size they will be as an adult when you're a kid. It's not like they were getting a seven year old a nose job or botox or collagen-filled duck lips.

    I'm torn about cosmetic surgery as a whole. It has legitimate uses, and I don't think anyone should have to live with a giant nose or uneven boobs or stick-out ears if they don't want the extra attention. But I don't like the extreme fear of aging that I'm seeing, sparked by almost every actress in Hollywood. We'd rather embrace a non-human look, than face the aging process.
    As typical, you nicely encapsulated my own general, basic view on cosmetic surgery.

    I guess the media was already getting bored with the art director mom for J Crew painting her son's toenails pink in order to display some of the products she liked in the catalog's spread... Time to generate a new slew of stories from a minor event.

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