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Thread: Define troll

  1. #11
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    It all comes down to perception. Thats the deal.
    Ones perception of anothers remarks and beliefs.
    If you get enough people saying ones a troll, then there a troll.
    Doesn't matter if they really are or not.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I'd describe it as a more or less chaotic or narcassistic individual whose source of joy stems from making others hurt, simple as, it could be by your classic bullying in-group vs. out-group or victim deal, like ostrichising, shaming, scolding, or something apparently less personal, like derailing topics, preventing discussion, behaving in a "me too" manner if someone is acting like a "big dawg", for instance a power tripping member acting like a group's regulator, or who frequently introduces incendiary topics which are likely to solicit furious or strong feelings, either as a derail or with some continuity.

    I dont believe that flaunting of rules, necro-posting (ie resurrecting old or apparently spent topics, or seeking to tempt rediscussion of old topics with new members) necessarily qualifies as trolling in itself, discord qua discord has got to be the intent.

    For me the big, big factor in most trolling behaviour or most trolls is the element of dismissing, minimising and diverting, the massive resistance to insight, which they exhibit, if its made plain to them what their behaviour is resulting in and they either suggest everyone else needs to change, accept, "have a sense of humour" or some such or even positively revell in the reprimand and negative attention then they're a troll, its totally unambiguous.

    In person trolls are painful people and emotional vampires, they're draining not energising and frequently seek have others feel their emotions for them, in the same way that a kid might turn and shove another kid and having been shoved themselves and laugh if that child cries. Its identifiable online because unlike real life they dont have the sorts of signals which would tell them to cut the crap, ie people abandoning them, isolation etc. because online its easy to imagine you have an audience, support, like minded sympathisers simply by virtue of the medium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allegorystory View Post
    The way I see trolling is that it's when someone deliberately picks a fight, not for what they might glean from an argument/heated discussion or because they want to correct someone or even interject their opinion, but just for the sake of being antagonistic or because they're bored and want to stir up some drama.
    I dont know, entertainment or excitement could be a motivator but then it lacks the qualifty of causing hurt or making someone miserable which really and truly seems to be the goal of most trolls and trolling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Well, there seems to be a common misconception about trollers and flamers, though neither are very accepted.

    Troll: causes maximum disruption and argument through use of provacative statements, flaming comments, and off thread topics with no real belief behind them, for the sake of personal amusement.

    Flamer: can cause disruption and argument, use provacative statements, flaming remarks, because they genuinely disagree with the topic at hand.

    Or atleast thats the way I see it....
    Well I think there's definitely more to it than simply choosing topics, having strong opinions and even being combative about it, flames should be contained but that's not it either, to me all those things could even be associated with strong T and J cognitive functions from MBTI.

    Its the element of games playing and messing with people to hurt them without any real intent of discussion, I can tell, I like to think, when someone is frustrated, shit out of arguments or battling a straw man or bogeyman of their own imagining when heatedly exchanging with me on a topic (OK I can tell better when I'm not being hot headed myself) and that's a different matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont know, entertainment or excitement could be a motivator but then it lacks the qualifty of causing hurt or making someone miserable which really and truly seems to be the goal of most trolls and trolling.
    I agree with this. I used to say "I trolls" because some people seem to want to say that anyone who is funny, witty, off-topic, or entertaining and not being a srs cat is a troll. I enjoy random, entertaining people with interesting opinions. I used to think some of the best threads ended up in the graveyard.

    I think this forum is actually less moderated than it was two years ago, and that's a good thing. Real trolling I think is obvious, like someone who is totally hostile to the community. Isn't that what a troll is? Like an anti-social cretin living under a bridge who wants nothing to do with the people in the village?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    It all comes down to perception. Thats the deal.
    Ones perception of anothers remarks and beliefs.
    If you get enough people saying ones a troll, then there a troll.
    Doesn't matter if they really are or not.
    No I dont agree with that, there's a set of behaviours and violations of group norms which can be categorised as being trolling, the total relativism of what you're describing beggars belief, if we were truly that relativistic and subjective it'd be impossible to communicate at all because you couldnt have a common language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I agree with this. I used to say "I trolls" because some people seem to want to say that anyone who is funny, witty, off-topic, or entertaining and not being a srs cat is a troll. I enjoy random, entertaining people with interesting opinions. I used to think some of the best threads ended up in the graveyard.

    I think this forum is actually less moderated than it was two years ago, and that's a good thing. Real trolling I think is obvious, like someone who is totally hostile to the community. Isn't that what a troll is? Like an anti-social cretin living under a bridge who wants nothing to do with the people in the village?
    Well the troll of legend who lends his name to that of the trolling behaviour online wasnt just anti-social, he was a child eater, kidnapper, killer, in short a monster and monsterous by naure and deeds. I think that's the crucial thing desiring discord, hurt and harm to others is trolling because its monsterous, the malevolence goes beyond a simple error of judgement or attempt to be funny.

    I'd say Marm that your view about people may have change because of maturing but you're likely to see that not as a compliment, which it would be meant as, and instead as condescencion and demeaning. Still I suspect that's what's happened. Its like the guy who speaks to his father and finds him a fool, goes away for ten years comes back and is surprising how intelligent his father has become in the interum when really its not his father that's changed but him. At least that's how I see it.

    This forum I wouldnt say is any less moderated than when I first visited, although complaints about moderation have remained about the same. I remember joining absolutely ages ago, before the current good division of topical forums and also its got to say way, way, way before the current norms of moderation developed, the place was damn hostile, I posted only about once, if I even did that, browsing was probably enough to make me decide it was a blind alleyway but coming back what seemed like a long time afterwards it was a different place. It was really because decisions had been made to cut the shit out. I've even read some of the posts on the forum in which people say "some of you have been behaving unduly mean" etc. in a random search of pages and pages of content I did.

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    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    No I dont agree with that, there's a set of behaviours and violations of group norms which can be categorised as being trolling, the total relativism of what you're describing beggars belief, if we were truly that relativistic and subjective it'd be impossible to communicate at all because you couldnt have a common language.
    I can see it now...

    "Per the 'Don't be a Troll' code of ethics, you are in violation of rule #88942 in subcategory 29 'False Statements' with post #7746 which stated " My cat fluffy is an ESTJ..." following post #6921 which stated " Fluffy keeps a messy cat box." We have a zero-tolerance policy for trolling and consider this violation to be a gross abuse. Your membership has been suspended until proof of Fluffys catbox can be provided along with documents from a certified MBTI testing institute."
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I think a real hardcore troll actually will say things they don't even mean, just make up shit that they know will upset people, and it usually becomes apparent pretty fast that they make multiple threads and posts intended to offend people, without actually contributing any real thoughtful discussion or positive behavior outside of the provocative posts and threads.
    This is a good definition in my book. It's not about strong opinions or how you express them,it's a person who purposely causes discord just for the sake of it.It's a person who throws a rock at a window just to watch it break, and see who gets upset.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Smile! Now!

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    Useless, but still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

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    If you don't know what a troll is...you are a troll.

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