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  1. #11
    Senior Member bluebell's Avatar
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    I try to work in areas where at least some of it feels like 'play' to me. One of the big appeals of my current job is access to knowledge and information (that I wouldn't normally have access to) that I can slot into my mental models of the world. That definitely makes it feel a bit like play for me.

    I guess a job that makes me use my weaknesses more than my strengths feels like work, not play.

    And household chores feel like work. Blech.

  2. #12
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    For me sometimes it can depend who it's with.

    Doing something - anything, even the most mundane and laborious chore - can feel like play/fun, with an easy-going person that can banter and joke and chat, and is open to experimentation regarding ways to do the job. I've sometimes spent hours just folding and stapling photocopied pamphlets and alphabetizing record sheets - theoretically boring as hell - but yet transformed into fun by the company I had with me, and the time just flew.

    But by the same token, something that's supposed to be fun like a party or a vacation or trip can be like Japanese torture if it's with a boring, dull person. I can usually get a shy person to come outta their shell... but some of them are best left in there, for everyone else's benefit, I find!! I mean people who are rude, obnoxious etc...

    Sometimes though, just having the right music playing in the background can make anything fun. But even without actual music playing, sometimes I find myself singing or going through scripts even just on my own and doing the voices and stuff, while say, doing the vacuuming or driving on a long journey. Driving can easily turn into play if it's a road with twisty bends on it, or even in town centre traffic I can amuse myself by 'talking to' the people in the other cars, either as myself or some book or movie character.

    For me play and fun are a state of mind and if I enter into that state of mind then I'm happy as a kid in a candy store doing just about anything. There are some things that facilitate or make it difficult for me to reach that state of mind, but sometimes I still do or don't, regardless. In fact, most of the time I do... it's almost my 'default setting'.

    As for paid work - I wouldn't take paid work that wasn't rewarding on some other level than just the pay. I haven't done any work just for pay since my first couple of jobs as a teenager; since then everything's been for my beliefs, all humanitarian stuff, and I can get through even the most trying phases by just remembering what it's all for.

    That sort of empty work that's just for survival that so many people end up in... well, I honestly can't imagine myself ever doing it. I never have yet and I don't ever intend to.

    "my survival" has never registered in my mind as a necessity, though it might sound odd... I guess I just always took it as read that I'd survive, which is all I require really, not being materialistic or ambitious on my own account... that was just by the by... it's pretty difficult not to survive in this country, after some fashion... Whenever I've worked, it's been for a different purpose, I guess; I've seen something needs to be done and worked towards it, for the result, the goal, the cause... Necessity in the sense of money or my own survival has never really entered into the mental equation here...
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  3. #13
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    play is when I do things out of the sheer pleasure of doing it. Work is an obligation. Requires more focus, but at the same time, may be better rewarded. At that point, some of the pure pleasure has died. It is more than a state of mind, as it requires actual actions, obligations, choice of responsibilities and promises/deadlines to be kept. Which play has none of. (At least, mine doesn't. Anything goes for an ENTP playtime. )

    e.g. handwriting thread. I started it out of pleasure, as I enjoyed getting the practice. Then later, when the requests started flooding, it became an obligation. So felt like work, except, without the rewards. Till Sub (thank you) came in and helped out, and also told me that it wasn't my obligation for e.g.

    So yups. Play is when I'm happiest. Able to wander, hop, skip and jump from interest to passion. ENTP in natural state. Work is when I'm doing my duty, simply, focused on one thing, being obedient, being vocal, depending on what calls, what is needed. ENTP as ISFJ, ENTJ. I do both.

  4. #14
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    Play is when I'm happiest. Able to wander, hop, skip and jump from interest to passion. ENTP in natural state. Work is when I'm doing my duty, simply, focused on one thing, being obedient, being vocal, depending on what calls, what is needed. ENTP as ISFJ, ENTJ. I do both.
    Hm... do you ever (like me) find that doing something that's your obligation/duty can also be pleasurable? Either in the task itself, or because you're getting reward out of what you know the result will be?

    An example: you volunteer to help the Red Cross distribute aid packages. This now means you're 'obligated' to do a load of work. But does it feel like work, or are you happy doing it because it's rewarding and you wouldn't choose not to do it even if there were no 'obligation'? Does the fact that you're really helping people in need and making a difference, and the pleasure in that, override the boredom or discomfort of having lots of hard work to do?

    I guess in my case I don't really see anything as an obligation... whatever I do I know I do because I choose to; there's always the choice not to and I'll survive all the same, so I guess... that's just another state of mind, isn't it? That's the way I tend to think of most things - I'm doing it for reasons of my own and if those reasons become defeated by the work then I'll quit the work unless I find another reason to do it. So... it doesn't feel so much like the necessity/obligation kind of work you people are talking about to me, because to me it just feels like "something I've decided to do".
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Hm... do you ever (like me) find that doing something that's your obligation/duty can also be pleasurable? Either in the task itself, or because you're getting reward out of what you know the result will be?

    An example: you volunteer to help the Red Cross distribute aid packages. This now means you're 'obligated' to do a load of work. But does it feel like work, or are you happy doing it because it's rewarding and you wouldn't choose not to do it even if there were no 'obligation'? Does the fact that you're really helping people in need and making a difference, and the pleasure in that, override the boredom or discomfort of having lots of hard work to do?

    I guess in my case I don't really see anything as an obligation... whatever I do I know I do because I choose to; there's always the choice not to and I'll survive all the same, so I guess... that's just another state of mind, isn't it? That's the way I tend to think of most things - I'm doing it for reasons of my own and if those reasons become defeated by the work then I'll quit the work unless I find another reason to do it. So... it doesn't feel so much like the necessity/obligation kind of work you people are talking about to me, because to me it just feels like "something I've decided to do".
    Ah. I took work to be that kind of 9-9 obligation that pays the bills and feeds the family. i.e. if I didn't have to, I wouldn't do it. Yes, I could find some pleasure in it, for .e.g if I'm good at it. But simply put, I'd rather be doing something else if I could?

    All others. Dance, volunteer work, hanging out with friends, family etc, are pleasure activities to me. They were chains voluntarily chosen, that is all. So play is something I choose out of free will. Work is duty to me, to feed the family.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    Ah. I took work to be that kind of 9-9 obligation that pays the bills and feeds the family. i.e. if I didn't have to, I wouldn't do it. Yes, I could find some pleasure in it, for .e.g if I'm good at it. But simply put, I'd rather be doing something else if I could?
    9-9? Not 6 days a week too? And people accuse Europeans of being slackers?

    Thankfully, I haven't had 72+ hour work weeks in quite some time (interestingly, I was having a lot more fun when I was working those hours). Those hours, along with school work (30-50 hrs), could kill me.

    One of the other issues with work is that other people are counting on me, and I would hate for there to be negative consequences for others due to my (in)action. There is a very strong guilt component to work also.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Snowey1210's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I guess in my case I don't really see anything as an obligation... whatever I do I know I do because I choose to; there's always the choice not to and I'll survive all the same, so I guess... that's just another state of mind, isn't it? That's the way I tend to think of most things - I'm doing it for reasons of my own and if those reasons become defeated by the work then I'll quit the work unless I find another reason to do it. So... it doesn't feel so much like the necessity/obligation kind of work you people are talking about to me, because to me it just feels like "something I've decided to do".
    I think this is the best way to approach the work situation, however I think it is important that the gap between work and play doesn't become too great otherwise there is the risk of work becoming tedious. A good job should "bridge the gap", a task that is assisted for me by the opportunity to engage in new beneficial experiences, and so according I value a job with a lot of variety.

    Another point that needs to be made is that, regardless of whatever level of choice is that can be attached to the work process, there is ultimately the need to work to meet requirements of sustinence, shelter etc. So whilst I accept that work is in fact a choice, I think that it needs to be weighed against the necessity of the workers context.
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