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  1. #41
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    I'd gain more from being more SP-like than SJ-like. Ne doms/auxes and Ni doms/auxes are not the same. NJs are just as much Js as SJs.
    Meh. I mean, I think it's easy for some people to confuse INFJ and ISFJ, because they can present and behave similarly in community settings, but there's a big difference when you start talking to them... one has an anchored, stable, and explicable framework, the other sees numerous possibilities and the choice of which one to use in a given situation depends on context and personal concerns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest
    It basically happens to NPs if we attempt to live too much in our tert/inferior functions. Those functions are there to help us, and for balance, but overall they're supposed to be things like supplement and relief, and for example, the ENFP who tries to be an ISTJ for too long will end up tired, overwrought, stressed out, possibly even burning out from trying to do or accomplish so much to please others, or because they thought it's what they're "supposed to do."

    It's better to learn your natural strengths and work with those.
    Yeah, I learned all that the hard way, and didn't even realize how much I was trying to be SFJ in my daily life in order to make my family happy... trying to live up to their expressed values, and feeling guilty about just being my more flexy, adaptable, outside-the-box self.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #42
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Why do you think he was an N trying to be an SJ? I'm of the opinion he was an ESFJ in a Narcissistic Fe/Ne loop (not using enough Si, ironically), and an unhealthy, bottom level 3w2...the enneagram type most likely to be "that nice guy" in the neighborhood who becomes a serial killer.
    I didn't see an ounce of ESFJ in him (I've known a severely unhealthy ESFJ 3w2 and he was nothing like Patrick Bateman. almost the opposite). ESFJs even at their bottom levels are much more extraverted and he seemed to hate everyone. his thinking was definitely extraverted. I'm fairly certain he's INTJ, ENTJ but I suppose he could be ISTJ.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I didn't see an ounce of ESFJ in him (I've known a severely unhealthy ESFJ 3w2 and he was nothing like Patrick Bateman. almost the opposite). ESFJs even at their bottom levels are much more extraverted and he seemed to hate everyone. his thinking was definitely extraverted. I'm fairly certain he's INTJ, ENTJ but I suppose he could be ISTJ.
    LULZ do you know an evil ESFJ when you see one? I'm not saying that Patrick Bateman is absolutely an ESFJ...but I can tell you that you're dead wrong if you think they can't be narcissists, sociopaths, superficial charmers, and can't inwardly hate the fuck out of people.

    ESFJs in an Fe/Ne loop can be dangerous. I think you're stereotyping TJs as villians...there are different types of villians.

  4. #44
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    I am an intuitive trying to look like an SJ.

  5. #45
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    Wait!!! I take that back...I *do* insist that Patrick Bateman is ESFJ, Elfboy. Functional attitudes are just that...attitudes. They are basically world views and preferences (not behaviors or interests), and if his prime motivation isn't Fe/Si, I'll eat my hat:

    Bateman's employment at Pierce & Pierce is apparently unnecessary. His father owns another successful company, which is revealed during a conversation between Patrick and his ex-girlfriend when she inquires as to why he would work at P&P. Upon questioning, the sole justification for still working is, in his own words, "I... want... to... fit... in."
    That is decidedly NOT a Te motivation for having a career, and certainly not an Ni/Te motive. His thought process is also very detail oriented, and in the book he...

    authoritatively explicating the difference between various types of mineral water, which tie knot is less bulky than a Windsor knot, and the proper way to wear a cummerbund, pocket square, and tie bar
    which sounds like Si/Ti to me.

    I think when he goes nuts he's using more Fe/Ne (maintaining Fe appearances, but losing touch with his Si, slipping into a pathologically narcissistic state).

    There's also never any proof that he actually commits the murders, it all potentially was one big delusion...not unlike Natalie Portman's character in Black Swan, slipping into her own Ne/Ti shadow, interestingly, as an ISFJ.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    There's also never any proof that he actually commits the murders, it all potentially was one big delusion...not unlike Natalie Portman's character in Black Swan, slipping into her own Ne/Ti shadow, interestingly, as an ISFJ.
    And if it isn't a delusion? It is deliberately left open, but we can still interpret his actions in either scenario. Whether he is slipping into a fantasy delusion, or slipping into... rampage... Would they be similar functions, that take him to this end, or totally different? In either case, he seems distraught by either his actions or through his confusion over these actions having possibly not occurred at all.

  7. #47
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I am an intuitive trying to look like an SJ.
    Maybe, but you're not failing miserably.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

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  8. #48
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    I'm not even going to bother trying...It'd be a train wreck.

    I don't think I tried beforehand either...I feel like it wouldn't bode well for me.

  9. #49
    figsfiggyfigs
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    I have no idea what any of you mean. I refuse.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    And if it isn't a delusion? It is deliberately left open, but we can still interpret his actions in either scenario. Whether he is slipping into a fantasy delusion, or slipping into... rampage... Would they be similar functions, that take him to this end, or totally different? In either case, he seems distraught by either his actions or through his confusion over these actions having possibly not occurred at all.
    What matters are his motives and thought patterns. Whether he's a delusional psychotic or a murderer, his motives and thought patterns matter most. I don't think it would change his functionality, I just thought it was an interesting parallel to the delusions of the ISFJ character in Black Swan.

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