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  1. #31
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    Do you mind if I ask you to clarify what you mean by this?
    Mostly that even though most followers of religion are Sensors, a lot of the ones who take it to extremes and become religious leaders, and possibly even the people who found religions, tend to be Ns.

    I'm just saying that Sensors shouldn't be considered as having more responsibility for the prevalence of religion than Intuitives, just because a larger number of them happen to be religious.

    There are tons of people who [think they can] find concrete "proof" of God in the physical world, and this is often the basis of their faith. Aren't there?
    Not that I'm aware of... I think that people who do that are just trying to make a case for their belief and "pushing it" a bit. I don't think anyone actually believes that. Or if they do, they're extremely "out of it," enough that if they are S, they're using their inferior functions.
    What are you basing this on? Out of curiosity.
    MBTI theory, and the idea that since god is not an object that can be perceived with the senses, human beings are mostly aware of it as an abstraction. I mean, think about the qualities attributed to it... omnipotence, omniscience, infinity... these are not tangible traits.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Mostly that even though most followers of religion are Sensors, a lot of the ones who take it to extremes and become religious leaders, and possibly even the people who found religions, tend to be Ns.
    Ahhh, I understand you now.

    Not that I'm aware of... I think that people who do that are just trying to make a case for their belief and "pushing it" a bit. I don't think anyone actually believes that. Or if they do, they're extremely "out of it," enough that if they are S, they're using their inferior functions.
    To be more clear, what I meant by that also included less mainstream (though not imo less credible) views such as those found in many old "pagan" religions and pantheism -- naturalistic pantheism especially. Though I'm not sure how relevant naturalistic pantheism should be in this context, since it completely redefines the Christian concept of God (are we limiting this to that, by the way?).

    MBTI theory, and the idea that since god is not an object that can be perceived with the senses, human beings are mostly aware of it as an abstraction. I mean, think about the qualities attributed to it... omnipotence, omniscience, infinity... these are not tangible traits.
    I guess the biggest factor here would be which God concept the person in question is adhering to? I've heard of followings, for instance, that describe God not as an omnipotent being, but as some sort of "force" that can only be "experienced" firsthand to be truly understood.

    But I do understand that the Christian God is primarily an abstraction.

  3. #33
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    To be more clear, what I meant by that also included less mainstream (though not imo less credible) views such as those found in many old "pagan" religions and pantheism -- naturalistic pantheism especially. Though I'm not sure how relevant naturalistic pantheism should be in this context, since it completely redefines the Christian concept of God (are we limiting this to that, by the way?).
    Oh! I didn't even think of that. There might very well be some religions where the concept is less abstract.

    I really did just assume we were talking about the Christian god, since that's the one usually spoken of. I feel kind of narrow-minded, now.


    I guess the biggest factor here would be which God concept the person in question is adhering to? I've heard of followings, for instance, that describe God not as an omnipotent being, but as some sort of "force" that can only be "experienced" firsthand to be truly understood.

    But I do understand that the Christian God is primarily an abstraction.
    Well, then, you not only understand my point... you've looked beyond it. Yes, do suppose that a person could experience a god first hand, if they were inclined to attribute strange sensations/experiences and such to gods. Everyone has those, they just differ in how they interpret them.

  4. #34
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    although, any mention of "theism" or "atheism" in the title of a thread means that the discussion will eventually devolve into yet another tired theism/atheism debate

    it ends up following a formula similar to:
    "hey guys, [something about god]"
    "heh, idiot. god isn't rational because [wall of text]"
    "[sniping comments]"
    ...

  5. #35
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    about anything you post here turns into a debate. whatever, I don't care, let them debate for hours, at least it isn't real life and no one is going to end up with a cap in their ass.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  6. #36
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    agree

    I guess I said "devolve" .. but, well, when a thread starts with a huge unfounded stereotype, it's less "devolving" and more "stepping sideways into a different terrible domain of discussion"

  7. #37
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    I agree with you, but I've learned people are gonna do what they want.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  8. #38
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southern_lawyer View Post
    Yes. Although, that's easy for me to say.
    It is quite bold of you to suggest that a man who has devoted his whole life to the holy church does not sincerely seek the truth of the teachings of the scripture; which must be what you are saying, because the only alternative is that god does not make himself known to the people in a way one can understand unequivocally.

  9. #39
    Dependable Skeleton Engineer's Avatar
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    Going back to the OP, I definitely would agree. I'm an NT, and I believe in God. Though I might understand why most psycho-puddlejumpers would think that I might not... generally more concrete things are appealing to me. I like knowns. Not honestly sure how I resolve this need for the concrete with the essentially-abstract concept of God, other than by using some form of reasoning to think that-- Occam's Razor-- it would make slightly more logical sense if there were a supreme being.

    Again, it's sort of a double-standard, but it's what I believe.
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  10. #40
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engineer View Post
    Not honestly sure how I resolve this need for the concrete with the essentially-abstract concept of God, other than by using some form of reasoning to think that-- Occam's Razor-- it would make slightly more logical sense if there were a supreme being.
    How, using Occam's razor, would it make sense if there were a supreme being?

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