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  1. #61
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Morality IS a survival mechanism. If you absolutely cannot function, you risk endangering the human superorganism. This will not end well, because humans fight very, very hard. It is very likely that you will suffer more by opposing such a powerful entity. Best to just play by the rules as much as possible.
    ...until you see your chance.

    Because when you get a glimpse of the opportunity to steal those millions and get away scot-free, when you have worked out everything it would take to commit the crime of the century, or even cheat at a hand of poker at no significant risk to your survival or even prosperity, then the survival value of morality goes out the window.

    Morality as a survival mechanism only applies so long as it conveys a genuine survival advantage.

  2. #62
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    There are plenty of us who are socially responsible and respectful of culture without religion. My innate ethics do not require a creator to be useful and necessary. Life is not meaningless simply because I can't identify why it exists.
    Either that, or you live in a society that is so constructed that being "moral" is the path of least resistance.

  3. #63
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    ...until you see your chance.

    Because when you get a glimpse of the opportunity to steal those millions and get away scot-free, when you have worked out everything it would take to commit the crime of the century, or even cheat at a hand of poker at no significant risk to your survival or even prosperity, then the survival value of morality goes out the window.

    Morality as a survival mechanism only applies so long as it conveys a genuine survival advantage.
    You project too much Ti on everyone.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    ...until you see your chance.

    Because when you get a glimpse of the opportunity to steal those millions and get away scot-free, when you have worked out everything it would take to commit the crime of the century, or even cheat at a hand of poker at no significant risk to your survival or even prosperity, then the survival value of morality goes out the window.

    Morality as a survival mechanism only applies so long as it conveys a genuine survival advantage.
    I encourage you to make wise survival decisions.

  5. #65
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Religion has never created consistently ethical behavior in humans. To say that it has flies in the face of history.
    Slavery had been justified on religious grounds, but modern society now shuns that practice. This can only be because secular society saw slavery as unjust in an extra-religious sense.

  6. #66
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    I encourage you to make wise survival decisions.
    Is your advice the beneficial counsel of a genuine moral agent, or is it the noise generated by a random assemblage of matter?

  7. #67
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Religion has never created consistently ethical behavior in humans. To say that it has flies in the face of history.
    Slavery had been justified on religious grounds, but modern society now shuns that practice. This can only be because secular society saw slavery as unjust in an extra-religious sense.
    Bad choice of examples. When the West did away with slavery, communities of faith spearheaded the efforts on both sides of the Atlantic, often to the annoyance of the secular majority.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Is your advice the beneficial counsel of a genuine moral agent, or is it the noise generated by a random assemblage of matter?
    No, it's temptation. You're speaking with a deceiver that wants you to take what you desire, forge your own destiny, and make this trivial assemblage of matter yours in any way you wish.

  9. #69
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    No, it's temptation. You're speaking with a deceiver that wants you to take what you desire, forge your own destiny, and make this trivial assemblage of matter yours in any way you wish.
    The reason I ask is because morality as it is commonly understood in the West will often require us to perform acts of self-sacrifice, which is patently does not contribute to survival. So you think I should ditch all that and just look out for me, then?

  10. #70
    Insert Snarky Quip Here Stigmata's Avatar
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    I don't see the two as being synonymous at all, which I think is a large misconception amongst most fundamentalists that equate the absence of belief as the absence of a personal ethic. Without the constraints of a religion, we're free to develop our own code of morality which tends to hold a little bit more personal meaning given at it's the culmination of values that we've reached through our own interpretation and follow on our own volition, whereas the religious basis for morality tends to merely be a strict set of rules that must not be questioned and adhered to out of fear of some form of divine judgement.

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