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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    This The only sin is hypocrisy, which is the opposite of integrity. An "evil" person who is consistent , has integrity.
    A "moral" person who is inconsistent, has poor integrity and is a sinner.
    So if you're lawful evil, that means you're not really evil? Woo-hoo!!!
    (And chaotic good sux!)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Neutral Good in the house.

  3. #13
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    Neutral good here, too.

  4. #14
    Member ultimawepun's Avatar
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    There are so many things I want to say regarding religion and morality, but I might violate the rules or start a flame juggling, and I don't even know where to start. I'll try my best to stick to these recent religion threads for now and see where they'll go, then maybe I'll make a decent post.

    I agree to the topic though, you don't need religion to be morally sound.

    Finally, I'd like to clear up a misconception that applies at least to my case:
    I did not become an atheist because of science. I became an atheist because of religion.

  5. #15
    Oberon
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    The answer to this question really depends pretty hard on your definition of morality. In the religion-based moral paradim, the believer operates under the premise that the moral code has been handed down to humanity by some higher consciousness. The moral code may be questioned with regard to its application to specific circumstances, but the code itself is considered received knowledge, and one who seeks to alter the code is inherently breaking it. This is the context in which use of the term morality was conceived and established, and the one with which I am most familiar.

    In a non-religon-based moral paradigm, the individual is the ultimate arbiter of what is moral and what is not. The individual's moral code may be the code of the society in which he or she lives... in which case it is usually informed not only by consensus but also by history, embodying the accumulated judgments and opinions of previous generations of the society to which the individual belongs. As an alternative, the individual may elect to formulate his or her own moral code... in this event, the choice to follow no moral code at all represents in itself a moral code of a sort, the sort in which morality is represented by the individual's will.

    To my way of thinking, if a moral code is not religious in its origin, it makes no real difference in essence whether the moral code the individual chooses is that of society, or family, or pure self; in all of those cases, it's the individual who's in charge, and the individual who must answer to him or herself for his or her actions. Perhaps it's my Ne speaking, but in my opinion this isn't really morality.

  6. #16

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    Morality precedes religion, though religious morality seems more like an attempt to streamline or control certain behaviors under the banner of "thou shalt." This might actually have had some good effects here and there in the formation of societies out of the "natural state." But this has nothing to do with morality's dependence upon religion. Religion is merely one possible instantiation of morality codified. Law is another along with social mores, norms, etc., etc. Religion merely added the wrath of God onto the lineage of punishment instead of the wrath of the state or society. Religious morality has more in common with law than with any "everyday morality." Not only that, most morality isn't written, it's lived or intuited along with the context in which a moral question arises, which makes the universality of morality difficult.
    Ed Womack
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  7. #17
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewomack View Post
    Morality precedes religion...
    Interesting premise. What's your basis for it?

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    So if you're lawful evil, that means you're not really evil? Woo-hoo!!!
    (And chaotic good sux!)
    Your enemy never sees him/herself as such.

    I always played Lawful Good clerics or paladins. I did one time Play a Chaotic Evil cleric. He was fun

    If I guess my true alignment. It would be lawful Good. As much as I hate law and order I need things in the "physical" world to make sense.
    But Lawful Evil is good too

  9. #19
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    agree or disagree.

    I agree, there's something about consequences and not wanting to hurt others because you care about them and it has nothing to with pleasing some higher power.It's more complicated than that but I'm lazy.
    I agree that you don't need religion to have morals.

    I think that it helps some people who don't come by morality easily to find it... but I think that many, if not most, people would choose to be moral even without religion. I do, for instance.

    What you really need is a philosophy. I think that philosophy should replace religion.

  10. #20
    morose bourgeoisie
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    I was wondering when the Catholic Triumvirate would arrive to set yal on the course to orthodoxy.

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