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  1. #1
    All Natural! All Good!
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    Default Why I am no longer going to complain about anti-S bias

    My contention is that the two-variable power hierarchy in society looks like this: SJ > SP > NJ > NP.

    SJs have the most power because:
    When most people say "skills", they mean "SJ skills". When most people say "intelligence", they mean "strong Si and Je" (even if they don't use those terms), "factual knowledge", and "strong work ethic". Other skills don't count. SJs and everything about them are considered "normal"; by definition, then, everyone else is "other". In a more literal sense, SJs are 50% of the population (though estimates vary), and they probably hold more than 50% of the positions of power. The schooling and working worlds are designed for SJs to succeed, because they are held together by SJs.

    SPs have second most power because:
    We are a relatively prevalent temperament at 30%. There are enough SPs that some skills associated with strong Se are seen under the intelligence umbrella. Enough SPs that we are still seen as actual people.

    NJ > NP in the hierarchy because NJ has top-two Je, which is also an SJ skill. The world seems far more stacked against Ns. I'd guess many feel devalued as people when their talents are invisible to or rejected by others. (This is just a guess. Please correct me.)

    Now I think I understand why some Ns on this forum have an anti-S bias. IRL, Ss are unintentionally oppressing Ns most of the time. Some Ns find their sanctuary on an MBTI forum with favourable numbers (N > SP > SJ) and don't like it when we (S types) invade it to complain in the face of pro-N biased comments, or say we don't feel welcome on this forum, etc. Because a lot of Ns don't feel welcome in the world altogether, they are the victims of anti-N bias each and every day, etc. (I'm just guessing. Again, please correct me. The last thing I want to do is replace your words with mine.)

    In comparison, I think I have no right to complain. I have the entire real world (mostly) in my favour, it would not kill me to let the Ns have this forum. I am sorry for being ignorant of this until just now.

    All of this is open to correction, discussion, etc. and feel free to tell me I am just wrong. I apologize for any incoherence, I haven't slept in a while.
    Strychnine is all-natural,
    So strychnine is all good.
    It's Godly and righteous,
    So eat it, you should.
    Who are you to refuse nature's will?


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  2. #2
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Well, individual atoms in my body also seem to totally dictate everything in my life.

    Strangely - or not so strangely - I don't think they have a hold over me.

    The S people are bit like that.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #3
    Senior Member Thisica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    Well, individual atoms in my body also seem to totally dictate everything in my life.
    But without them, you wouldn't be here. They're not dictators, like some people in society...At least, they're indifferent.
    “To explain all nature is too difficult a task for any one man or even for any one age. 'Tis much better to do a little with certainty, & leave the rest for others that come after you, than to explain all things by conjecture without making sure of any thing.”—Statement from unpublished notes for the Preface to the Opticks (1704) by Newton.

    What do you think about me? And for the darker side, here.

  4. #4
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Yes, very true... look at what I included in my MBTI Tutorial that I wrote a while ago:

    S/N -- Sensing/Intuition. Sensing types are practical, no-nonsense people when it comes to dealing with things. They are well attuned to the world around them, and know how to deal with it. Intuitive types are creative, insightful people who have an advantage in Science, Philosophy, Psychology, and Poetry. In pretty much everything else and everyday life, however, Sensors excel and surpass Intuitives. So if we seem critical of Sensors, know it's out of jealousy, fear, and bitterness, and don't take it personally.

  5. #5
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I have nothing against S's, in fact I look up to them in many ways, but you're right. It is tiring to be labelled lazy and immature and god knows what else just because your skill set doesn't fit in their world view, so when you do find a place where you feel understood and valued, it's easy to forget about those that aren't part of that world, as such, I guess. It is in fact a safe haven, very much so.

    I resent the real world in a way, since what I contribute isn't valued. At all. I can hold down a 'real' job, and pretty much know that although I can do the work..I will never do it as well as an S(J) would, since it's just not tailored to my skills, or I'm not tailored to its needs. It's frustrating, to say the least. Coming here and understanding why that is, is a pretty big relief and having the chance to discover your own skill set in the process, is an even bigger relief.

    I think that much of the 'N'-bias comes from the difficulty in communication, the lack of S's in general, the difference in interests and the fact that you automatically gravitate towards your own comfort level, meaning that more N's will gravitate towards N-stuff, which leaves S's feeling left out. Understandable. And it fosters that bias that 'these topics' are more important to discuss (leading towards the feeling that if you don't find these topics important you're not important/smart/with the program), because they're favoured by the group culture here, which of course is due to the N majority
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  6. #6
    figsfiggyfigs
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    YEAH !!!!
    SCREW DEM SENSOUURZZZ

    /didn't read thread.

  7. #7
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    "Why I no longer complain about the S bias" -> cause I developed a chemical agent to rid the Ns from the face of the planet !
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #8

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    Hmm...I neither agree nor disagree with this.

    I mean, while I find a lot of the systems that make up my culture spectacularly arbitrary and while most of the time I balk at how many people simply write me off as a "nerd," a "weirdo," someone who "thinks too much." Even though it irritates me that even though I find very little point in doing things most people consider "normal, everyday important stuff" I still have to do those things to be an integrated member of my own society.

    However, I'm the one to blame here, really. It's my own mentality that sets me apart and that's not the fault of anyone else. I could sit around and blame everyone else, but it won't do squat. And I ENJOY thinking the way I do so really I'm just perpetuating my own "isolation" (if I can even call it that).

    Or I can suck it up, realize that most people don't think like I do and see how best I can integrate myself with them.

    Because if they feel similarity with me (and like by me) they'll be more open to the things I have to say. If I treat them with bitterness and anger (for all the supposed "injustices" they "inflict" upon my uniqueness) then they'll treat me accordingly.

    I really do think it's all about perspective. Nothing in this world is as bad as your mind makes it out to be.

  9. #9
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Yes, very true... look at what I included in my MBTI Tutorial that I wrote a while ago:
    Here's what I read there.

    S/N -- Sensing/Intuition. Sensing types are practical, no-nonsense people when it comes to dealing with mundane bullshit that those truly brilliant among us have neither the time nor inclination to deal with because we're too busy doing important things related to Science, Philosophy, Psychology, or Poetry. They are well attuned to the world around them, and as a result know how to do things like drive cars, pay bills, build things, and keep up with the laundry. Intuitive types are creative, insightful people who have an advantage in all areas of knowledge valuable to Western society since ancient times. In pretty much everything else and everyday life, however, Sensors excel and surpass Intuitives. So if we seem critical of Sensors, know it's out of jealousy, fear, and bitterness, and don't take it personally. Because what creative, insightful Scientist, Philosopher, Psychologist, or Poet would not be insanely jealous of someone who could fold socks correctly?
    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    I think that much of the 'N'-bias comes from the difficulty in communication, the lack of S's in general, the difference in interests and the fact that you automatically gravitate towards your own comfort level, meaning that more N's will gravitate towards N-stuff, which leaves S's feeling left out. Understandable. And it fosters that bias that 'these topics' are more important to discuss (leading towards the feeling that if you don't find these topics important you're not important/smart/with the program), because they're favoured by the group culture here, which of course is due to the N majority
    Please. The idea that most of the Ns on this forum are actually Ns is nothing but group delusion. The reason there is N bias is because the differences in the quality of descriptions between Ss and Ns (and actually, to be more specific, between the I/ENPs, INJs and the rest...the ENJs get a crappier treatment in the descriptions, too) causes people to identify with the more "awesome" ones. And don't pretend like there's not a difference. The INTP description, for instance, makes them sound like they're all brilliant scientists or philosophers, while the ISTP description makes them sound like a car mechanic with a beer gut. And going by the amount of gloating that people around here engage in about the virtues of their type (everyone here is apparently a tortured dreamer, genius, or idealist that just can't fit into this mundane world), it's not far-fetched to think that people probably identify more with the virtues than the actual types.

    Plus, do you think it's even fair to lump, say, an ENTJ (or really, any NJ) in with you as far as appearing "lazy" or "immature" to an SJ observer? I know an ENTJ and ENFJ in real life, and they are very far from being or appearing lazy or immature to anyone. Moreover, my ESFP sister (and pretty much all ESFPs I've ever known) struggles with things like laziness, organization, and immaturity FAR more than anyone else I know.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  10. #10
    Senior Member Rex's Avatar
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    hey ISTPs have a great description.

    Likes making decisions on the basis of logic, using objective considerations
    Is concerned with truth, principles and justice
    Is analytical and critical, tending to see the flaws in situations
    Takes an objective approach

    The judging Thinking function is introverted. That is, Thinking is used primarily to govern the inner world of thoughts and emotions. The ISTP will therefore:

    spend time thinking analytically, organising thoughts on a logical basis
    develop an understanding of the principles involved in a situation
    spontaneously feel critical of a person or situation, but not necessarily express that criticism
    be inwardly decisive, but not communicate those decisions to others
    think mostly about impersonal issues, focusing more on concepts, truths and systems rather than individuals' feelings

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