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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by penny89 View Post
    It did, to me anyway.
    to you too.

    Ns are certainly important to this world too which makes me wonder why it's so unwelcoming to them. Perhaps the Ss here have done the equivalent of overcoming their subconscious anti-N bias by learning about issues Ns face (gosh, that sounds absurd, but I can't figure out how else to phrase it). Whereas Ss that are unfamiliar with MBTI do much unintentional harm.
    I don't think all Ss who don't know about MBTI do unintentional harm. Just some of them. I have a good ESFJ friend who has never harmed me in any way and only helped me. Etc.

  2. #62
    All Natural! All Good!
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegorystory View Post
    But "fault" really is a bad word for it. "Responsibility" is probably better.
    Yeah you're right again. I agree with that.

    I guess I was trying to get at, if you like the way you are it doesn't necessarily mean you chose it.
    Strychnine is all-natural,
    So strychnine is all good.
    It's Godly and righteous,
    So eat it, you should.
    Who are you to refuse nature's will?


    Don't use the multiquote; it was planted by the devil to deceive us.

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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegorystory View Post
    I think the problem usually for the "tortured genius" (in reality, not in fantasy) is not that society doesn't understand him, but that he doesn't understand society.
    I think it goes both ways. IME most people don't understand rareness. Hell, many actively resist it/ have a problem with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I don't think all Ss who don't know about MBTI do unintentional harm. Just some of them. I have a good ESFJ friend who has never harmed me in any way and only helped me. Etc.
    Yes this is also true.
    Strychnine is all-natural,
    So strychnine is all good.
    It's Godly and righteous,
    So eat it, you should.
    Who are you to refuse nature's will?


    Don't use the multiquote; it was planted by the devil to deceive us.

    Social Role: Asscrack/Piece of Shit/Public Defecator/Spiteful Urinator


    A different type everyday - so no need to type me anymore. But feel free to enjoy the sound of your own asscrack.

  4. #64
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegorystory View Post
    I think the problem usually for the "tortured genius" (in reality, not in fantasy) is not that society doesn't understand him, but that he doesn't understand society.
    True.

    Quote Originally Posted by penny89 View Post
    Ns are certainly important to this world too which makes me wonder why it's so unwelcoming to them. Perhaps the Ss here have done the equivalent of overcoming their subconscious anti-N bias by learning about issues Ns face (gosh, that sounds absurd, but I can't figure out how else to phrase it). Whereas Ss that are unfamiliar with MBTI do much unintentional harm.
    I'm legitimately curious now; in what specific ways are Ns more unwelcome in this world than anyone else?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  5. #65
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Hmm... I've known quite a number of very successful N's in the real world. No S-type has ever limited them.

    ...just sayin.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    Hmm... I've known quite a number of very successful N's in the real world. No S-type has ever limited them.

    ...just sayin.
    It depends probably on who your parents were, what class you are (I think working class favors S strongly strongly strongly because of the emphasis on necessity, making N talents seem 'frivolous' or 'unnecessary' to lower-class people), and blah blah blah. The school system is incredibly SJ. The military is SJ. There is a leaning toward Sensor preferences in the world, there just are.

    However, some people aren't limited at all, for whatever reason, which is great for them. I don't feel especially limited now that I'm older.

    I think TJs (including NTJs) can make life very unpleasant for FPs in some situations where the TJ is in a position of power to judge the FP as lazy, stupid, or non-productive...inferior, basically. That's got nothing to do with N or S.

    I also think NTs can look down on people who aren't as uber-rational, as well.

    There's more divide in the world than S/N, and I do wish people would acknowledge that. Some people say "omgz S/N is the most important divide."

    Sometimes I'm not so sure that's true for everyone. I mean I do see that, but I also see where F/T is a pretty strong divide for me as an individual.

  7. #67
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    Hmm... I've known quite a number of very successful N's in the real world. No S-type has ever limited them.
    ...just sayin.
    It depends on the N, their specific personality, and what sort of background they've had.

    A lot of the N's I know manage to do okay in the world, but they look to find other N's because they feel misunderstood or that they've had to sacrifice/hide aspects of their N-ness in order to fit in. (Among my family, there is only one other N -- a cousin who I rarely see since she's halfway across the country -- and while I learned how to fit in and "be part of them," I don't really have a close relationship with any of them primarily because we don't share concerns, and they don't really "get" me... and the best I could do was make what parts of me I could "mesh" with them.)

    It might feel the same if you were the only S around a bunch of N's. Even if there wasn't conflict, and you could exist fine, maybe even find a niche for yourself, there is still this odd feeling that you're always the "changeling child" and never really were understood or fit in.

    My family only really ever supported or respected my "following the rules of society" in ways they could understand, or having interests that were tangibly rational to them. A lot of my ethereal side was just downplayed/humored or considered to be mindless and pointless.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #68
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I'm legitimately curious now; in what specific ways are Ns more unwelcome in this world than anyone else?
    I wonder this too. I hear a lot of talk, on this forum, of not fitting in to a Sensor world. But I never hear any examples.

    Also, I just don't get it, in general. Seems like all types have a place in society. I have a ton of N friends (far more than S friends) and I don't think any of them would say that they are unwelcome because of their personalities. (And if they are, it's not because of being an N - it's because of social awkwardness, or geeky interests, or something else unrelated to type.)
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  9. #69
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    So, we have the following:

    1. Ns are potentially more disadvantaged in society than Ss because the necessity of survival renders their strengths less valuable.
    2. Ns are potentially more disadvantaged in society than Ss because of the oppression of traditions and rule-following.
    3. Ns are more disadvantaged in society than Ss because their ethereality is not valued.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  10. #70
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    What a crock.

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