User Tag List

First 2735363738 Last

Results 361 to 370 of 373

  1. #361
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    6,747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I understand that this is frustrating....because it happens to me a lot, too. Even lumping together skill with preference, Se is not known for its love of detail. We can get to the same result (being thought of as careless) though different means, unfortunately. A lot of people don't understand that no matter how hard you try to remember something, sometimes even important things slip your mind. So if you don't have a working system to backup your memory like writing everything down (and do it successfully), you can come off as a total flake, even if you care deeply about the task.

    NJ doesn't seem to have much trouble with detail, oddly. Maybe their big-picture Te plans put a priority on the details that are important, I don't know.
    I would have to agree with you, (and others) that have said that NJ (namely ENTJ's) seems to handle society's demands well, and sometimes better than SJ's. From what I've seen, something about the big picture planning in combination with the want and need to achieve those goals makes them a winning combination. (Even if they are utilizing others to help them fill in the details.) Either way, I think that most people of any type have some sort of an obstacle to overcome when it comes to succeeding in life. School and business does seem to cater to SJ's learning and work needs... (which is fine I guess since SJ's are the majority). At the same time I've seen SJ's struggle in areas where everyone else shoots right ahead. Detail oriented, not detail oriented, creative, day dreamer, "clueless", no common sense, leader.. Anyone can succeed when they try to learn a bit about themselves and how to work around their own mental blocks and quirks.. Not really sure where I am going with this.

    (Just enjoying that the thread is back on topic!! See now? We all just needed a good night's sleep.) As a side note, after Purp's comment I'm thinking of changing my screen name to Rosa Parks... hahaha.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  2. #362
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 so/sp
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    2,484

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Making up some nonsense in your head about how oppressed you are when 90% of the world doesn't even understand the difference between sensors and intuitives is just plain nuts.
    The traits that make up sensing and intuition are still very well known in the world, even if 90% of them don't know how they are classified in typological terms.

    I wouldn't say there is an oppression, but there is a general sense that sensing traits are preferred, since about 75% of people prefer them in themselves. This is what happens in pretty much any majority/minority situation especially when a significant proportion of each thinks that their side is the best (approach to the world).

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Harmony View Post
    All right, I've got the anchor... Where is this N that doesn't want to be anchored to reality?
    *retreats into my head even further*

  3. #363
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 so/sp
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    2,484

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    I would have to agree with you, (and others) that have said that NJ (namely ENTJ's) seems to handle society's demands well, and sometimes better than SJ's. From what I've seen, something about the big picture planning in combination with the want and need to achieve those goals makes them a winning combination. (Even if they are utilizing others to help them fill in the details.) Either way, I think that most people of any type have some sort of an obstacle to overcome when it comes to succeeding in life. School and business does seem to cater to SJ's learning and work needs... (which is fine I guess since SJ's are the majority). At the same time I've seen SJ's struggle in areas where everyone else shoots right ahead. Detail oriented, not detail oriented, creative, day dreamer, "clueless", no common sense, leader.. Anyone can succeed when they try to learn a bit about themselves and how to work around their own mental blocks and quirks.. Not really sure where I am going with this.

    Just enjoying that the thread is back on topic!!
    I am enjoying that it's getting back on track too..... you were a huge help in it all.

    I agree with the above. When I was reading some of the earlier stuff about how intuitives are I was thinking "how many of the ENTJs are going to agree with this stuff?" Though I've also seen that even how an ENTJ would also run into some trouble in the SJ work world, as I have seen the dynamics/fireworks of many conflicts between a particular ENTJ and an ESTJ. It usually comes down to a classic S/N clash... details/whole and whatnot. So... Te with Ni orientation can be tricky too out the world too, particularly if not allowed to be in charge of something for a while. (I am ready for a good TeNi beating if I am wrong)

    The key for sure if to overcome our individual challenges, whatever type or form they are in.

  4. #364
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    edit -- jenaphor, i don't say any of the following with any particular malice towards you as a person, at all, i rather like you and your posts in general, but i feel sort of compelled to share it in defense of why i made that particular statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    But it is disappointing to see comments like "thread leader".
    well, i don't assume you were really ever interested in my perspective, but that's what you're going to get for continuing to push me.

    perhaps it was unintentional on your part - or you felt that after having been in this thread for a while, you had a right to be a little directive, which is fair enough - but your tone has very much been that of a facilitator or leader. your recent comments have followed the general pattern of neutral, leading (making directive, certain statements) --> neutral observations that serve to undermine others' arguments accompanied by sarcastic comments like "fascinating" --> negative, decisive universal judgment.

    it's happened here, that sort of undermining pattern. you've made very generalized decisive statements: "It appears that middle ground isn't possible" - appearing to speak for the whole group - and then you make this sort of comment to me. "it's disappointing...". as if you're some sort of authority, looking down. it's manipulative, whether intended or not. and obviously it's been working to some extent, because you've managed to shut down members' contributions that you disagree with.

    but it's backfiring, too, because you're creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. there's not going to be middle ground if you keep making blanket judgments and devalidating others' opinions.

    --

    anyway i'm glad the thread is back on topic!!

    i would be interested to hear from S perspectives, if you've had frustrations with Ns, and how those tend to come off.

  5. #365
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    I would have to agree with you, (and others) that have said that NJ (namely ENTJ's) seems to handle society's demands well, and sometimes better than SJ's. From what I've seen, something about the big picture planning in combination with the want and need to achieve those goals makes them a winning combination. (Even if they are utilizing others to help them fill in the details.) Either way, I think that most people of any type have some sort of an obstacle to overcome when it comes to succeeding in life. School and business does seem to cater to SJ's learning and work needs... (which is fine I guess since SJ's are the majority). At the same time I've seen SJ's struggle in areas where everyone else shoots right ahead. Detail oriented, not detail oriented, creative, day dreamer, "clueless", no common sense, leader.. Anyone can succeed when they try to learn a bit about themselves and how to work around their own mental blocks and quirks.. Not really sure where I am going with this.

    (Just enjoying that the thread is back on topic!! See now? We all just needed a good night's sleep.) As a side note, after Purp's comment I'm thinking of changing my screen name to Rosa Parks... hahaha.
    It's because a lot of American mainstream values are ENTJ rather than necessarily SJ that ENTJs can "do so well."

    It's largely cultural, each culture values something different...the French value the art of living well, Americans seem to value "he who dies with the most toys wins."

    SJs will just commonly be blamed because they're perceived as holding up whichever values in the culture are current...they preserve the traditions and keep the community functioning (in theory, not to say that all SJs do that, because that's just silly...an SJ, particurlary an SFJ, could reject the primarily TJ way of being in this country, depending on his or her upbringing.)

    However, there has become more and more opportunity for P types...especially smart P types...to live in alternative ways because of technology, etc. which is very cool.

  6. #366
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    6,747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    well, i don't assume you were really ever interested in my perspective, but that's what you're going to get for continuing to push me.

    perhaps it was unintentional on your part - or you felt that after having been in this thread for a while, you had a right to be a little directive, which is fair enough - but your tone has very much been that of a facilitator. your recent comments have followed the general pattern of neutral, leading (making directive, certain statements) --> neutral observations that serve to undermine others' arguments accompanied by sarcastic comments like "fascinating" --> negative, decisive universal judgment.

    it's happened here, that sort of undermining pattern. you've made very generalized decisive statements: "It appears that middle ground isn't possible" - appearing to speak for the whole group - and then you make this sort of comment to me. "it's disappointing...". as if you're some sort of authority, looking down. it's sneaky, really. and obviously it's been working to some extent, because you've managed to shut down members' contributions.

    but it's backfiring, too, because you're creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. there's not going to be middle ground if you keep making blanket judgments and attempting to undermine others' opinions.

    --

    anyway i'm glad the thread is back on topic!!

    i would be interested to hear from S perspectives, if you've had frustrations with Ns, and how those tend to come off.
    I continue to assert that we would have found middle ground while completely overlooking each other's points only to make a completely different point condescendingly. Not the most socially accepted way of finding middle ground. But we would have gotten there. I believe. Somehow.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  7. #367
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    6,747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    It's because a lot of American mainstream values are ENTJ rather than necessarily SJ that ENTJs can "do so well."

    It's largely cultural, each culture values something different...the French value the art of living well, Americans seem to value "he who dies with the most toys wins."

    SJs will just commonly be blamed because they're perceived as holding up whichever values in the culture are current...they preserve the traditions and keep the community functioning (in theory, not to say that all SJs do that, because that's just silly...an SJ, particurlary an SFJ, could reject the primarily TJ way of being in this country, depending on his or her upbringing.)

    However, there has become more and more opportunity for P types...especially smart P types...to live in alternative ways because of technology, etc. which is very cool.
    True! Fe is the definition of holding up society and tradition.. So, of course they are going to appear to run society, no matter what the values at the moment. I think that sometimes when you're filling out your taxes or sitting in a classroom details about something you don't care about, or sitting in a business meeting, the tendency is to think... "This is so not me. Look at that SJ over there, all interested in every detail and taking notes... This society. This society is all run by SJ's!" (I've thought it myself.)
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  8. #368
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 so/sp
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    2,484

    Default

    ^ And the SJ is thinking "Why do I always have to take the notes just because I'm the only one who can get it done right? Looks at these Ns and Ps sitting back and watching or talking while I do all the work. I need get back home at a decent hour too!"

  9. #369
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Te
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    The traits that make up sensing and intuition are still very well known in the world, even if 90% of them don't know how they are classified in typological terms.

    I wouldn't say there is an oppression, but there is a general sense that sensing traits are preferred, since about 75% of people prefer them in themselves. This is what happens in pretty much any majority/minority situation especially when a significant proportion of each thinks that their side is the best (approach to the world).



    *retreats into my head even further*
    Oh, of course the differences exist between sensors and intuitives. But if people are not conscious of these differences, I hardly think they can be called "oppressive" when they try to do things in the "S way." Besides that, I think some intuitives really lack balance, and really need to be around some sensors. Just as it's beneficial for sensors to develop intuitive abilities, many intuitives really need to develop their sensing abilities as well.
    You lose.

    _______

    RCOEI
    Melancholic-Choleric
    Respectful Leader

    Johari Window|Nohari Window

  10. #370
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    ^ And the SJ is thinking "Why do I always have to take the notes just because I'm the only one who can get it done right? Looks at these Ns and Ps sitting back and watching or talking while I do all the work. I need get back home at a decent hour too!"
    yeah. i feel so bad when my SJ mom does the work that i won't. she feels like it has to get done. i don't. i don't want her to have to do more work, i just don't understand why these specific things have to get done. and then she thinks i'm lazy and don't care about her because i don't do it.

Similar Threads

  1. [Enne] Why I Am No Longer An Enneagrammist
    By Mal12345 in forum Enneagram
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 09-07-2014, 10:10 AM
  2. [Enne] Even Though I Am No Longer An Enneagrammist...
    By Mal12345 in forum Enneagram
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 09-01-2014, 09:42 AM
  3. [INTP] INTP men, how do you behave when you are no longer attracted to a girl?
    By Almari in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 04-14-2012, 10:29 PM
  4. I forgot what I was going to talk about...
    By Cloudblue in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-09-2010, 03:02 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO