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  1. #221
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    You can switch it to TJ if you prefer (I'm not sure that they're the majority but they're absolutely preferred traits at least growing up in Western society). I didn't mean to imply that people think it's worse than race/gender issues, it was more of an analogy - my point was that being white doesn't make you automatically fit in, and being S doesn't automatically make you fit in, either, despite the "extra" potential for alienation inherent in any minority group.

    I think we agree but from different directions that make it sound different (like many other people in this thread)
    I don't think anyone has expressed that being anything is an automatic fit. But the more you are part of the majority group, the less adaptation is necessary which translates to less frustration and ease throughout life, albeit not necessarily easy street or sailing through clear, calm blue waters.

    If what I've stated agrees with what you've stated, then yes we do agree.

  2. #222
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    But to suggest that it's not a frustrating exercise for intuitive children to express themselves to a world full of sensors before they've adapted to a more concrete world of thinking, is an unwillingness to meet in the middle. With this in mind, why should intuitives bother to meet in the middle? Well because, it's a sensors world and we have to adapt in order to do well, which is what most of us have done and succeeded like a hot damn.
    sure, though i think you could say this about Je too. really about any function in a society where the other function is more dominant and/or more valued. or any attribute, at all. being a racial minority, a female, someone who actually likes anchovies... just the downside of living with others, i guess. it's not always pleasant, certainly, or fair. i'll still take that over trying to survive on my own.

  3. #223
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    can someone please explain to me what this giant communication gap apparently is? I don't feel like reading through the entire thread (and let's blame that on my ExxP-ness )
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #224
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Why would an ISFP be more adaptable to society than an ENFJ?
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  5. #225
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    can someone please explain to me what this giant communication gap apparently is? I don't feel like reading through the entire thread (and let's blame that on my ExxP-ness )
    Hmm... well, okay, I'll give it a shot.

    The big communication gap is that Intuitive types mostly see the world in terms of metaphors and patterns that are not interesting to other people. Our ideas affect how we think and behave, and we often have a hard time articulating them in a way that other people who are not Intuitive can understand. It's hard for us to illustrate things using concrete examples, or hard evidence, for instance. Our minds work in a very vague, pattern-based way. On top of this, an Intuitives major interests tend to be in areas of study that are not interesting to most people, like philosophy, psychology, or computing. We're seen as odd, or people that either "think too much" or "don't think things through enough." Also, we tend to prioritize different things in life.

    While for instance, SJs tend to want simple things like a family and kids more than anything else in life, and don't need much more than that to be happy, Ns tend to care more about "finding themselves," or trying to figure out the world, trying to find what matters to us. We spend more time trying to figure out life, than living it. People don't understand that, and often see us as lazy, paranoid, detached from reality, lost in our heads, dreamers, escapists, or as just plain over-thinking everything. We can't explain to people why there's more to us than that, because of the communication difficulties described earlier. Likewise, we tend to feel misunderstand and mistreated with so many people constantly telling us these things, and wondering how we can be so intelligent in some ways and yet so unable to deal with reality, thinking that we're messing up in life on purpose.

    Sensors... tend to rely on more concrete ways of expressing themselves. They just focus on what's in front of them, they accept the world around them for what it is. They accept the common interpretations of reality, and they go along with them, because they just want to LIVE. They want to DO things. Life is about simpler things, like good food, raising a family, being a good citizen, having fun with your friends, or listening to good music. They just don't care about the world that Intuitives live in... it's not important to them, it seems dull and useless to think about all this... stuff.

    To be honest, I think that even if Society were biased towards Ns, Sensors would STILL be happier, because life is much more "heavy" for Ns, and we often want to do the impossible. Sensing-style happiness is much easier to find in the world, regardless of whether society is set up for it or not. Human beings are just happier and better off being S, in general.

  6. #226
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Hmm... well, okay, I'll give it a shot.

    The big communication gap is that Intuitive types mostly see the world in terms of metaphors and patterns that are not interesting to other people. Our ideas affect how we think and behave, and we often have a hard time articulating them in a way that other people who are not Intuitive can understand. It's hard for us to illustrate things using concrete examples, or hard evidence, for instance. Our minds work in a very vague, pattern-based way. On top of this, an Intuitives major interests tend to be in areas of study that are not interesting to most people, like philosophy, psychology, or computing. We're seen as odd, or people that either "think too much" or "don't think things through enough." Also, we tend to prioritize different things in life.

    While for instance, SJs tend to want simple things like a family and kids more than anything else in life, and don't need much more than that to be happy, Ns tend to care more about "finding themselves," or trying to figure out the world, trying to find what matters to us. We spend more time trying to figure out life, than living it. People don't understand that, and often see us as lazy, paranoid, detached from reality, lost in our heads, dreamers, escapists, or as just plain over-thinking everything. We can't explain to people why there's more to us than that, because of the communication difficulties described earlier. Likewise, we tend to feel misunderstand and mistreated with so many people constantly telling us these things, and wondering how we can be so intelligent in some ways and yet so unable to deal with reality, thinking that we're messing up in life on purpose.

    Sensors... tend to rely on more concrete ways of expressing themselves. They just focus on what's in front of them, they accept the world around them for what it is. They accept the common interpretations of reality, and they go along with them, because they just want to LIVE. They want to DO things. Life is about simpler things, like good food, raising a family, being a good citizen, having fun with your friends, or listening to good music. They just don't care about the world that Intuitives live in... it's not important to them, it seems dull and useless to think about all this... stuff.

    To be honest, I think that even if Society were biased towards Ns, Sensors would STILL be happier, because life is much more "heavy" for Ns, and we often want to do the impossible. Sensing-style happiness is much easier to find in the world, regardless of whether society is set up for it or not. Human beings are just happier and better off being S, in general.
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  7. #227
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    sure, though i think you could say this about Je too. really about any function in a society where the other function is more dominant and/or more valued. or any attribute, at all. being a racial minority, a female, someone who actually likes anchovies... just the downside of living with others, i guess. it's not always pleasant, certainly, or fair. i'll still take that over trying to survive on my own.
    It's very possible that being a P is more difficult in life than being a Je. I can accept that and don't need to invalidate your statement by suggesting that it's because you've only experienced imaginary frustration.

  8. #228
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    ah... so I'll just conclude that y'all fail at communication 101 and leave it at that

    (really... it's not that complicated... just STFU and LISTEN )
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #229
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    ah... so I'll just conclude that y'all fail at communication 101 and leave it at that

    (really... it's not that complicated... just STFU and LISTEN :doh
    No kidding, just STFU and LISTEN!

  10. #230
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Listening does not equal accepting at face value.

    Apparently my life should be easier because the only things I worry about are eating and having fun with friends.
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